Season 2, Episode 36

Welcome to the Coaching Studio Podcast

This podcast features fun, lively conversations with masterful coaches who are creating an impact. Get to know them, their journey into coaching, and discover what wisdom they would offer you about being a better coach.

Let’s go!

I am happy to have Gideon Culman MCC on the Coaching Studio

the Coaching Studio Guest

It’s with pleasure that I have in the Coaching Studio as my guest today, Gideon Culman, MCC.

Quick Links from Episode
Visit Gideon at K Street Coaching to get to know him a bit better.
Please go listen to his podcast, Master Coach Collection, to hear more interviews with Masterful Coaches.
You can also find him on LinkedIn and see what he is up to.
To learn more about Lego Serious Play, check out this book.

 

Credits

  • Host: Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC
  • Music: Frolic by Harrison Amer
  • Production Editing: Lyssa deHart
  • Social Media and Communications: Michele Logan

About This Episode

On this episode of the Coaching Studio, I am thrilled to introduce you to Gideon Culman, MCC. Someone who I consider a good friend. I thoroughly enjoyed this thoughtful conversation with Gideon as we launch grenades into ideas about non-judgment and explore the idea of skillfully cultivated ignorance.  Join me as we consider how our world is created and impacted by how we show up as a coach and a human being.

Gideon received his MCC in 2020. He brings a deeply thoughtful style and curiosity into his coaching. Gideon believes that embracing curiosity is essential to creating the world we want. Life today is accelerating at a ferocious clip. The stability, predictability, and certainty that we may have taken for granted are falling away. The more tightly we cling to a fleeting world order we once knew, the more fluidly it seems to slip through our fingers. Stepping back and taking in the impact of the volatility that greets us at every turn can take our breaths away. Rising to the occasion of life in a rapidly evolving world and our exceedingly demanding roles in it leaves us with no choice but to grow and change.

Read the transcript of this episode of the Coaching Studio Podcast:

00:00

Lyssa deHart

Hello, and welcome to The Coaching Studio. I’m Lyssa deHart your host today, and it is a rare honor when I get to introduce somebody who I consider a friend onto the studio. So that would be Gideon. That’s right. You, um, and really, I met Gideon last year, I think, um, because he is also doing a podcast. And so he and Mel Leow and I all ended up getting to know each other through this process of podcasting where we all had sort of a similar idea at the same time during COVID. And, um, it’s just been a pleasure to get to know you over the last year or so, Gideon. And I’m just very grateful that you’re on my show today. So thank you for being here.

00:45

Gideon Culman

Yeah, it hasn’t even been a year, and it feels like a deep friendship that goes way back. So consider that.

00:55

Lyssa deHart

Yes, it hasn’t even been a year.

00:59

Gideon Culman

It hasn’t even been a year.

01:01

Lyssa deHart

It hasn’t even been a year. It’s been mostly this year. Um, god, that’s crazy. So, well, anyway, god.

01:10

Gideon Culman

Forever. That’s crazy. I think that could be a tagline for me.

01:18

Lyssa deHart

Gideon, that’s crazy. So, Gideon, you know, kind of what it is that I’m really curious about just sort of this, uh, journey arc that you’ve taken towards your MCC. I think I was reading that you got your MCC in 2020, and so it’s fresh, I would assume, in your mind sort of what this experience has been like for you. And I would love to hear a little bit about this journey you’ve taken and what you’ve learned along the way.

01:54

Gideon Culman

Wow. Uh, starting where? Like, ah, becoming a coach or closer to MCC land.

02:03

Lyssa deHart

Well, like, what if it drove you towards wanting to get your MCC? A lot of coaches get their ACC, and they’re good with that. Some get their PCC and they’re good with that. And then there’s a few that are like, I am going to go ahead and go for it. I’m going to throw my hat into the MCC circle and see what happens. Let’s start there. What had you tossing your hat in the ring?

02:28

Gideon Culman

Um, it’s evolved over time, but let me start at the very beginning. A very good place to start. I remember the, uh, lead trainer in my original coach training program was Christopher McAuliffe at Accomplishment Coaching. And he held an MCC. And he was just so adroit as a coach. And, um, I was enamored with the skill he displayed. And as a how old was I? I guess I was like, as a 32-year-old entering coach training, um, knowing that I didn’t like the professional path that I was on. And seeing coach training as a remedy for that, I thought, uh, here’s someone to model, myself on. And I made up my mind that I would spend my 30s mastering, um, this new field. And that word got, um, into the, uh, idea stream. And I think I fixated on it. And it became kind of a fixation for a while. Um, and I never got my ACC. I skipped straight to PCC in 2014, and just kind of had this MCC thing out there as something that I needed to do. But 2020, which is when I, it was at the end of 2019, I said, okay, I’m clearing the decks after this and focus on, um, earning this credential. Uh, because it seemed like an appropriate time. And the year handed my ass to me, like, um, it, uh, did to so many other people. But I had signed up at the beginning of 2020 for a mentoring program with Carly Anderson. And Carly just makes it so freaking easy. There’s a library of people who, um, submitted conversations, uh, that have passed MCC that you can listen to and just kind of get a mental model of what a masterful coaching call is. And there’s a lot of variety, there’s no one way to do it. But I just remember joining this and thinking, ah, okay, you know what? There’s a gap. It’s not a big gap. Um, I just need to close it and I’ll be there. And then everything fell out from under me, um, the most important thing being child care. And from, you know, um, one day to the next, I became a full-time caregiver who had no space to, uh, just focus. And without the focus, I felt like I was dead in the water and, um, didn’t know how I was going to make it. But, um, I think that’s, uh, really important in my own MCC journey because I feel like my kids, who were just five and almost two at the time, became my Yodas’ early, um, on in my initial coach training, I learned that we never coach family, um, this was a rule to be followed. And I think that they just didn’t want people, um, manipulating the folks around them with, uh, brand new coach skills. But I found, as I was, uh, studying for the MCC exam, that, um, I’m not there to manipulate anyone because we’re all in the same boat together and it’s very close quarters. I, um, would be insane not to use these skills on my kids. And I think that as a result. Um. I give them a lot more space. And they have, um. A much more assured grasp of the reins of their own life than I ever had, before my twenties. You know.

07:14

Lyssa deHart

There’s something that you have said. And I don’t know if you said it specifically. But it’s certainly what’s showing up for me as you’re talking. Which is intentionality. Um, whether it was an intentionality about, um, modeling yourself after a coach, ah, that you respected, or an intentionality of really taking these skills that you are developing and utilizing them in a useful, powerful, compassionate way with people in your family. Um, I’m really curious about that intentionality that it is so much a part of how I experience you, anyway.

08:01

Gideon Culman

What’s the question about the intentionality?

08:06

Lyssa deHart

What is that intentionality for you? Is that even a piece of how you view it? But if it is, what is that intentionality that you bring to what you are doing?

08:26

Gideon Culman

That’s a damn good question. Let me take a look. I’ll start, as I often do, in a circuitous manner, and tell a story. This, um, morning, my wife and I had a TIFF, ah, about bringing kids to school. And, um, my daughter needs her morning power struggle, and it just delays things. So I took my son, uh, to school, and on the way, he was like, yesterday was a good day, and this morning was not. And I realized in that moment, oh, my gosh, there’s this huge underlying commitment for how Mornings could go. And so I worked with him to, um, get detailed about it, let a vision emerge, and challenged him to bring that to our family tonight and, um, have this commitment be something that guides us, that directs how we conduct not just our Mornings, but our family in general. He’s seven years old, and I want him to know what it’s like to be able to shape the climate of an organization, namely, uh, our family. And, um, all good and well. And then he said, okay, but what if people don’t go along with me? And I was like, okay, guess what, if they do go along with you, which is not very likely, you get to tell us all how, um, well, we did. And since it isn’t very likely, get prepared for it to not go the way you want. And then you can zero in on, um, the little pieces that we may be getting, right. But your commitment remains, your vision for how our Mornings unfold remains. And you can keep, um, bringing our attention back to that. You can keep, uh, encouraging our action in that direction. And the reason I mentioned this story in answer to your question about intentionality is that I think I’m pathologically over-correcting from my own childhood, and really just want to give my, um, family, uh, the sense of power over their own experience of life that I don’t think I even have today.

11:09

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, it really it strikes me as that issue of the locus of control. Right. What do we have control over and what do we not have control over? There was a book I read, and there was a line in it that is showing up, which is, the goal is the goal. The plan is not the goal. The goal is the goal. Right. So how can the plan shift and change? And I think that piece of intentionality, of, like, it may not go well, but it’s going to go somewhere. So prepare yourself. As long as you keep your eye on the goal, which is that we have a better morning in this particular, uh, case.

11:44

Gideon Culman

Yeah. But I’m clear that the ripple effects from A Better Morning are tremendous. And as I was having that conversation, I was also clear that coming back to intentionality, I didn’t know what a commitment or a vision really kind of felt like until I started thinking about it in my late twenties. And I don’t think that kids are unable to conceive of these things. I think that in those instances when kids do point their attention in those directions, they’re most likely to encounter a petulant adult who can’t deal with it and traumatizes them to never go there again.

12:38

Lyssa deHart

Mhm.

12:41

Gideon Culman

Back to intentionality, not that.

12:45

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, not that. And I’m hearing how coaching has impacted your family in that regard and your capacity to be curious versus controlling, as far as I’m hearing. How do you think your family has impacted your coaching?

13:10

Gideon Culman

Tremendously? Um, uh, every day throws challenges my way, and it’s just about meeting people where they’re at. And um, you know how when you get married they give you a really neat instruction booklet, and you know exactly what there is to do?

13:43

Lyssa deHart

Um, no, I don’t believe I’m familiar with that particular book Gideon, tell me more…

13:48

Gideon Culman

No, there is no such book and so, um, every day I’m faced with, um, challenges that I have no freaking clue how to address. Um, and if you’re a grownup and most of the people you interact with are grownups with like active prefrontal cortexes, um, you’re not used to the level of just rank irrationality that a kid can do. Being able to lean into, um, whatever randomness without needing to know but just trusting I can show up. And I’ve got this. My daughter came home, and my wife reported she’d had a bad day, and so I said, okay, do you want to go for a walk around the block after dinner? And she’s like, okay. So I didn’t know what to expect, and I heard her out, and she was telling me all about how, um, she really needs to mistreat her dolls, and these are hair-raising things to hear. But as a coach, I’ve learned it’s more important for her, uh, that I just hear her rather than try and fix anything. Um if she were treating people this way, I’d have to report her to the authorities. But she’s not. And she’s four. Right. Um, and I think that just being there to hear her out, puts her at ease and engenders a level of trust that you can’t coax.

15:42

Lyssa deHart

Mhm yeah it’s that, uh, setting aside of judgment of rightness and wrongness, if I’m hearing you correctly.

15:51

Gideon Culman

Yeah.

15:55

Lyssa deHart

I’m guessing here, but because it seems like that’s a harder thing to do with the people we love versus the people that we love at a distance. Like people were working with where we care about them in a great deal, but with our children or our spouse or our family in general, it might be harder. How are you able to get into that state of nonjudgment and open curiosity to take this walk around the block and hear these things?

16:27

Gideon Culman

Um, can I throw a grenade into this conversation?

16:35

Lyssa deHart

Yes, go ahead. Grenade it is.

16:38

Gideon Culman

Nonjudgment is BS. We’re all constantly judging all the time. And I think the trick is to recognize that and contain it and, uh, not let, uh, the judgments that we have, because that’s the factory setting we come with, we are wired to judge the living daylights out of anything that happens, out of anything we hear. Um, but contain it because the damage isn’t done in the judging itself. The damage is done in reacting based upon the judgment. So it’s creating a little space between, um, how I constantly and harshly judge and what I say and how I hear, how I listen.

17:23

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. That’s beautiful. I’m 100% in agreement with you. I mean, if we have a brain, we’re biased. Right. So we can’t help but make judgments positive or negative. Right. Like, it hasn’t been about one or the other. We do both equally. This is good. That’s bad. This is fine. That’s okay.

17:40

Gideon Culman

Harsh ones are more fun.

17:41

Lyssa deHart

Well, harsh ones are certainly, um, they’re harsher. Yeah. So that just, again, the intentionality of deciding, hey, here’s the judgment. I’m going to set it to the side so I can just be present with another human being.

18:00

Gideon Culman

Yeah. Just parenthetically. I lead workshops for people who are, um, considering entering politics. And whenever we create the ground rules, someone says, okay, and we’re going to be nonjudgmental. And usually I’m just a steward for whatever idea comes along, and I draw a line in the sand on that one. We’re not going to be nonjudgmental, but what can we do with our judgments that’s actually going to benefit the group?

18:27

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, I absolutely agree because I think it’s much more about our self-awareness in that regard. I think that’s where we get into so much trouble is the, um, unconscious judgments that we lay upon every other person or every situation that we’re not even aware of. So we can’t even say, hey, this is my bias, and I may be wrong, but here’s what’s showing up for me. We’re just like, harsh.

18:56

Gideon Culman

Yeah.

19:00

Lyssa deHart

So when you think about, then, this journey that you’ve been on, what has been what has been the piece that’s been sort of an AHA about yourself, like, enlightening self-reflective about yourself in this process?

19:31

Gideon Culman

I m have two answers. One of them is kind of a tail end, uh, to your previous question about how my family has shaped me. I’ll give that one first. And that is that, um, as a coach, I’m guided by my family. Um, I think I have two main strains or sources that I draw on these days. One, um, being classical literature, which is just a pastime that I pursue relentlessly with my son. And the other, um, due to my daughter’s spatial, um, intelligence. Like, I’ll go and cook a meal and then come back into the living room and see that she’s recreated, um, Roman aqueducts out of magnetiles, even though she’s never seen Roman aqueducts. It’s like oh, wow. So that has led me to pursue, um, Lego serious play on the one hand, because, um, it’s just a cool modality, but also intentionally, because I want to be able to meet my daughter with her spatial intelligence, where she’s at. And I’m kind of in over my head there without, um, a, ah, spatial intelligence, uh, that’s like that of my own. Um, so that’s one answer, but what have I learned about myself? I think this relates to, um, how we envision growth. Um, I have spent a lot of time reading, uh, about and practicing coaching related to adult development theory. And when we first encounter adult development theory, I think it’s tempting to treat it as a race to the top and see how complex we can get. What I’ve recognized is that what matters to me more, um, than anything at this point, is making, um, friends with the younger parts of myselves that are rational. Um, everyday me is very likely to sweep under the rug. And I’ve recently, um, had, uh, a lot of occasion to do that. My, uh, dad has, um, been in hospice, ah, care. He entered hospice care last, uh, month. And, um, all at the same time. Um, my daughter broke her arm and it just felt like everything was coming crashing down. I’ve been operating inside of a haze, and I asked my mom to send out my childhood Legos so that my daughter could play with them. I quickly realized that it was much more important for me to do this because they’re kind of like, uh, priests. Madelines for me. Just getting my hands on these old sets and building them has evoked. Um. Memories of what it was like to be for and to get in touch with who I was as a four year old and why that mattered. And who I was as a nine year old. And how that needs to inform me as a 43 year old and whatever I become after this. Um, so I think that, ah, um, I’m not really making a clear connection to coaching here, but it has just, um, I think made me more spaciously, available to everything clients bring to sessions. I never know what it’s going to be, but if I can meet the younger parts of them with a younger part of myself that isn’t on the outs, that I’m not in friction with, um, it’s just softer.

23:39

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. I know you and I have been chatting before about this idea of spaciousness and coaching, and I’m curious you would talk more about, because I know it’s important to you, and it’s something that has been a bit of a I don’t know if it’s a drum that you’ve been beating. But I do know it’s important because we talked about it before. I would love to hear more about your thoughts on creating that spaciousness and space and silence within coaching.

24:13

Gideon Culman

It really comes down to what coaching is about. I used to think coaching was about maximizing potential and bigger, badder. Rah, rah. And I’ve come over time to, uh, see, um, a different side of coaching that all label alchemical witnessing, which I take to mean when we witness someone, um, and they experience being witnessed, there’s a kind of state change. And, uh, maybe it’s a quickening, maybe it’s a bringing into focus, um, in a way that we can see it and act on it, what actually matters to us. But all it takes is a conversation where someone feels profoundly heard and profoundly seen, um, for somehow, and I’m not talking about bigger and badder and better, but somehow for us to really experience ourselves differently. And I think that’s the spaciousness that, um, I’m intent on creating and offering in coaching.

25:44

Lyssa deHart

Alchemical witnessing that’s magical, um, and again, I think this is something you and I have sort of talked about, um, a little bit, which is how unheard so many of us in life feel in our everyday life. Unheard? Oh, you are being a twerp. Hilarious. Yeah. How unheard we feel. You were just backing me up here. Um, but just, you know, that sense of really truly being heard by another human being, I don’t know that we get to experience that very often. And so what have you seen with your own clients as they are heard? What sort of shifts and evolutions have you noticed with this process of alchemical witnessing?

26:49

Gideon Culman

Um, there’s what I’d call the standard stuff that coaches tend to brag about, which is people making unprecedented leaps in their careers or leaving behind people that have been, um, detrimental to them. But I think one of the coolest things. Um. That I can point to. And this is a few years back. Is someone who. Um. Sought out coaching cause he just felt in over his head in his job. And as a result of coaching in the near term. Made the job work for him. But in the longer term. Just realized. I don’t need to be a rising star. That’s not what life is for. Um, and it’s not really always, uh, an explicit theme, or it rarely is, but I think that, um, some of the best coaching that I’ve had the privilege to, uh, um, accompany people in is the coaching that brings into focus the thinitude of life. The runway is, um, as expansive as it is, but it doesn’t go beyond that. And I think just making peace with, um, being alive means you’re going to die. What are you going to do between now and then? Um, how are you going to be at home and yourself as you do that?

28:49

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. What is the experience that you want to or choose to have in the short amount of time that we have in this experience that we’re in, yeah.

29:00

Gideon Culman

And the experience that, um, I think we’re often socialized to want to have, um, is something that many people don’t want when they uh, look under the hood.

29:23

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. It’s reminding me of just in my own life, and what my idea of success was at like 15. What my success of uh, looked like at 24, what it looked like at 35, what it looked like at 45, what it looked like at 55. Like these things have slowly been, they’re not like astronomically different. But what was important to me at uh, one point is no longer what was important to me at one point, right? Like it is shifted. And I think there’s an opportunity to deepen our appreciation of the experience that we’re having. Not all moments of it are good. And this sort of brings up something too, which is how many you read I know you read literature, and there are epic stories, right. How boring would these stories be if it was only ever one note throughout the entire story? Right. Like the hero needs the ups and downs in order to create an interesting story. And I think that’s probably true of our own lives also. I don’t know what shows up for you, as I say that?

30:40

Gideon Culman

Yeah. Um well, I don’t have answers to this. Certainly not very polite ones. But why do we see, um, so many LinkedIn posts and Facebook posts about tips and tricks to do this? Um and m, what is the imagined plot of someone who follows tips and tricks? Um, it seems kind of flat and insipid, heroic though we may think we are when we’re figuring out the secret to do whatever the bleep we want to do. Um, but it doesn’t map onto life as I’ve experienced it.

31:36

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. Um, in my mind, it’s kind of this funny it’s this kind of uh, interesting tension, maybe, is the better way of saying it, where I don’t know what you’re courageous enough or brave enough or strong enough for whatever the enough is that you need to be in order to do what it is that you need to do. So I know sometimes, mostly because I’ve experienced my way through fears, I know what I’m capable of stretching into, but I don’t necessarily know what another human being is capable of stretching into. And this idea that there’s this one size fits all solution to success is just it’s always so interesting to me. Because the real thing is why do you need me to tell you how to be successful when it’s really what’s in your way of success that only you can possibly ever know? Um, and there’s probably not a worksheet alone that’s going to determine that for you.

32:40

Gideon Culman

So one of the things that I’ve been reading this fall is uh, actually right in front of me. I’ll lift it up here. Um, it’s, ah, Plutarch’s Lives, wonderful. Um, Plutarch lived, uh, in Greece under Roman occupation about um, 18, 19 hundred years ago, and wrote about um, uh, greeks and Romans in pairs, comparing them to each other. Um, and what I find really fascinating about, um, the uh, lives in pairs is, um, I don’t know exactly what the project is, but it seems like he’s trying to map out human agency and figure out how things came to pass. Um, and there are so many different people who had a lot of agency, um, but some of them were master tacticians, but not very reflective. And they were incredibly capable, um, and ended up betraying the polities that they came from. There are others who were um, incredibly reflective, uh, but also, um, expedient. And they were uh, uh, not traitors to the policy that they came from, but were happy to sell out, um, thousands of lives of people on their own side in one fell swoop. And it’s just amazing to look at all of these different people, and what choices they had and what they did with them. Um, to just obliterate any sense, uh, that there is a way to lead. There isn’t one way. What are you made of? What drives you? What do you stand for? Um, what are the circumstances in which you operate? Um, someone like, um, uh, the founder of Sparta, ah, as Sparta, um, was able to do what he did, um, like Hergus was able to do what he did, um, because he came from a place of royalty and had that, um, authority vested in him. Whereas Solon, who tried to shape Athens into what it became, um, had to rely on influence because he didn’t have that social status. And it’s like all these different variables that matter. If I just say, well, because I say x y and z, XYZ is going to happen, I think it doesn’t factor in a lot of things that I would do well to factor in.

36:02

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. And that really circles back to what are you made of and how will you make the choices that you have before you? Because you may not have all the same choices before you that somebody else might have given different circumstances.

36:22

Gideon Culman

Um, I mentioned before, uh, leading workshops, uh, to help people who are thinking about entering politics. Um, is this right for them? Um, during our first session of the current run that I’m leading, after much consideration, I ended with, guess what? Um, my dad is in hospice. I was visiting him last month. And one of the things that broke my heart was just hearing how he’s always had these bright ideas and um, has never, uh, found the traction with them that he would have liked. But eventually you run out of runway and it’s like, okay, you’re done. You’re not going to affect the things that you want to affect. And I thought that it was really important to share that with these people who are considering shaping the world around us. And I said, I’m not skilled, uh, at many things, but I am good at creating curious spaces that will allow you to do something with the runway that you still have. And afterwards, people are like, I wasn’t sure I was going to come tonight, but, man, I’m glad I did.

37:57

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. I think it’s a really rich reminder. Nobody has an expiration date stamped on their butt, as far as I know.

38:06

Gideon Culman

Not one that’s discernible from the get go.

38:08

Lyssa deHart

Not one that’s discernible, exactly. So, I mean, it is then how do you want to live this life that you’re in. And what is the legacy that you want to leave? Right. And what is it going to take from you, in order to be able to do that in a way that’s in alignment with the type of human being you would like to be?

38:33

Gideon Culman

Um, and I push beyond that and say, how can I invite the Lyssa’s of the world and the, uh.

38:47

Lyssa deHart

the Gideons.

38:47

Gideon Culman

I know to coauthor with me what I’m here to create? How can they shape my ideas? And, um, a legacy that’s personal, I think, is limited in scope and duration.

39:07

Lyssa deHart

HM. But a legacy that it really includes others and community. Yeah. Mhm certainly has more legs.

39:17

Gideon Culman

Yeah.

39:21

Lyssa deHart

So if you were talking to a new coach who’s thinking, someday I want to whether I get my MCC or not, I really want to become more masterful in the way that I partner and participate in these kinds of conversations with the human beings that I’m working with. What might you offer them?

39:44

Gideon Culman

Um, that expert knowledge is incredibly important, um, and only in the situations in which it’s incredibly important. And that we are generally blind to that thinking that it’s important in all situations. Um, start learning to use ignorance as a tool. Um, fumble with it, break things with it, but keep coming back to it knowing that the more dexterity that you gain with not knowing, with, uh, a skillfully cultivated ignorance, the more power you will have to move things. And coaching conversations.

40:43

Lyssa deHart

Skillfully cultivated ignorance. I’m going to write that down. I love that. I think it’s that state of not knowing, that state of wonder, that state of curiosity, that is something that allows us to, again, kind of circling back to something we said earlier, that being in really hearing somebody. It’s really hard to hear somebody when I’m thinking about my next question. It’s a lot easier to really hear them when I’m just really present with them and listening deeply in my skillfully cultivated ignorance. I love that.

41:34

Gideon Culman

So the last coaching conversation I had immediately before, uh, you and I spoke today, I was speaking to someone who oversees a lot of people, and as a result of coaching, has, um, gotten in front of them. A lot more. I think he learned pretty quickly that he’d been hiding from the people who report to him and so he tours the floor every day and he said something that was in total jest. I didn’t realize it was in total jest. I thought oh my God, this is the most profound thing I’ve heard all day. But he said that there’s um uh a tension between intent and aimlessness when he’s walking the floors now. Um and it’s that intent that has him to get out there and be with his people and the aimlessness that allows people to bring uh problems. Concerns uh ideas. Suggestions to him um on the strength of which he’s uh turned his division into something rather exemplary within the organization in a short amount of time. Um and I stress this because uh I don’t want us to come away from this conversation fetishizing ignorance at the expense of knowledge.

43:10

Lyssa deHart

The intentionality.

43:12

Gideon Culman

Yeah it’s uh lean into the paradox if I were to offer some instructions about how to go about cultivating ignorance. Don’t be a dunce. Know that there’s a really powerful tension um that brings out the best in knowledge and ignorance.

43:38

Lyssa deHart

Yeah I um often think for myself this thought. Um m allow what I know to inform my curiosity, right? So I can be ignorant. It doesn’t mean I get rid of everything that I know, I just use it to inform my curiosity. And the curiosity is the place of not knowing that ignorance is not knowing. Not ignorance as stupidity as you’re saying this isn’t about being at guns this is about being willing to not know.

44:11

Gideon Culman

Yeah.

44:13

Lyssa deHart

That’s wonderful. What are you up to lately that you would like to share with people for the end of November/December time frame?

44:24

Gideon Culman

Well um I’m in a reading uh, group that tackles one pair of plutarchs lives uh, every Wednesday evening. Um it really gets uh me going. Um I’m doing this. Answering the call. Workshop through New Politics Leadership Academy. My um small but um important to me contribution to the US body politics. Um I’m uh m reading the Ramayana with my son. We’re about a third of the way through and um it tickles me pink to just spend that time reading and um then entertain the questions that come at me fast and furiously on the way to school the next day. Um I uh build a lot of Lego with my daughter. Um and truth be told, I think that I just kind of struggle with uh the personal changes on my horizon that I’ve alluded to and it’s caused a lot of grief. Uh and it’s heavy on my mind and on my heart right now uh, this Autumn of 2022.

45:59

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. Gideon, thank you so much for being here and being yourself and sharing transparently um you I really appreciate it.

46:12

Gideon Culman

Thank you.

46:14

Lyssa deHart

I’ll definitely be putting links in Gideon’s um, podcast. It’s Master Coach. Collection. Yes mhm so I’ll be putting a link to the Master Coach Collection so that you can go and listen to some of his, um, interviews. And, um, again, thank you again for being here today.

46:38

Gideon Culman

Can I say one thing about the Master coach collection?

46:41

Lyssa deHart

Absolutely. You can say anything you want about it.

46:45

Gideon Culman

I, um, love the Master Coach Collection just because it’s, ah, a real look at who we are as coaches. Given, um, what, uh, I’ve been carrying around recently, I haven’t done much work on it, but if you’re listening to this, if you hold an MCC credential, if you haven’t been on it yet, um, reach out to me…

47:08

Lyssa deHart

And, reach out to me, too.

47:13

Gideon Culman

Yes. Make this easy on us guys and girls and people who don’t identify as either. I’d love to speak to more people, and I’ve, uh, neglected that recently and would love your help getting, uh, it up and running.

47:31

Lyssa deHart

I’ll definitely, uh, be putting that link in there so they can go find you on LinkedIn and say, “Hey, I’m ready! “

47:38

Gideon Culman

Which is what you did. Which is how we met.

47:40

Lyssa deHart

Which is how we met. LinkedIn is awesome for networking because I was like, hey, I see you’re doing this thing, and I’m doing this thing.

47:49

Gideon Culman

Let’s talk.

47:51

Lyssa deHart

So that’s how you and I met? That’s right. All right, my friend, thank you again so much.

47:58

Gideon Culman

You’re most welcome. And thank you for creating this space where, um, anyone can learn about us.

48:08

Lyssa deHart

And maybe themselves a little bit, too, as a result. Yeah, we’re not so special.

48:14

Gideon Culman

Yeah, that’s the, uh, elephant in the room.

48:19

Lyssa deHart

That’s right. That is the elephant in the room.

 

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Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC

Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC

Host

Lyssa deHart ditched her therapy practice to become a Leadership Confidence Coach. Along the way she discovered a passion for professional coaching and wanted to find ways to share that passion with the world. Come join her in discovering and meeting some of the most amazing professional coaches on the planet. Her goal is to inspire coaches. Lyssa is the author of StoryJacking: Change Your Dialogue, Transform Your Life , and The Reflective Coach. Lyssa is an ICF PCC Assessor, Certified Mentor Coach, and budding Coach SuperVisor. Lyssa uses her understanding of the ICF Core Competencies, combined with her knowledge of Neuroscience, to work with people to become extraordinary professional coaches. Let's Go!

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