Season 2, Episode 29

Welcome to the Coaching Studio Podcast

This podcast features fun, lively conversations with masterful coaches who are creating an impact. Get to know them, their journey into coaching, and discover what wisdom they would offer you about being a better coach.

Let’s go!

Sophia Casey MCC welcome to the Coaching Studio

the Coaching Studio Guest

I am very excited to welcome Sophia Casey, MCC, to the Coaching Studio Podcast.

Credits

  • Host: Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC
  • Music: Frolic by Harrison Amer
  • Production Editing: Lyssa deHart
  • Social Media and Communications: Michele Logan

About This Episode

I am looking forward to introducing you to my guest today Coach Sophia Casey, MCC. As we explore her coaching journey and what she learned along the way about showing up and being with her clients. Choosing presence over performance and how she let go of copious note-taking so that she could truly be present with the person in front of her. Letting go of control in order to empower her clients to discover their own wisdom.

Sophia Casey, MCC is a co-founder and Chief Learning Officer of the International Coaching & Leadership Institute (ICLI) and the CEO of Sophia Casey Enterprises—a leadership development, executive coaching, and consulting firm. Sophia received her education at UCLA and Johns Hopkins University and has more than 25 years of experience as an educator, facilitator, and certified trainer. She led several training organizations, including serving as a Director of Enterprise-wide Training responsible for providing professional development programs to more than 10,000 engineers and attorneys, as well as being named Director of First impressions for a former Vice President of the United States. Sophia supports the empowerment of leaders as an award-winning international speaker and is the author of 5 books. She’s currently publishing her sixth and seventh books: a sequel to “Fierce Vulnerability, a Colored Girl’s Truths, Trials, and Triumphs”, and a coaching business startup workbook.

Read the transcript of this episode of the Coaching Studio Podcast:

Lyssa deHart

Hello, Lyssa deHart here, and welcome to the Coaching Studio today. I have in the studio Ms Sophia Casey, she is an MCC with the International Coaching Federation, and I’m so happy to have you on the show. Sophia, thank you so much for being here today.

Sophia Casey

Oh, my pleasure. I’m so excited about this conversation.

Lyssa deHart

Me too. I had such a good time just when we were meeting a few months ago, and so I’m really looking forward to having more of a conversation. I was looking forward to this all day long. So, I, you know, I started off with really a curiosity, around your own journey into coaching, and you’re a pretty new MCC as I recall a kind of a little fresh fresh. So, I’d love to hear your, you know, your Arc of coaching. I’d love to hear about that.

Sophia Casey

Absolutely That’s all I’m happy to share. So I’m new officially, I’m a newish MCC, but I consider that. I’ve been an MCC for a lot longer before. So my journey, [thank you. ] My journey with coaching actually started when I was a public servant, so I work for the US Federal Government in several agencies and I found myself doing coaching. But we didn’t call it that we didn’t have the word, you know, coaching still fairly young. So we didn’t have the word and and I was in involved in a lot of mentoring programs. I served as a mentor to a lot of front-line and Senior managers. So we didn’t have that word. And then I was asked to create a program to support senior managers and Frontline managers. And I was asked to create a mentoring program. And I’m like, oh no. Now I know about something called. So we ended up creating a mentoring and coaching program. And so that really kind of spearheaded my coaching career if you will within the public sector and then I had the wonderful opportunity to work with a coach. And I got introduced to this coach from my sorority sister who was working with him on a financial project. And she says, oh, you got to meet my coach. I was like, I’ve been, you know, keeping abreast of what coaching is but I’m not sure I need, I need. Hear that. I need a coach… imagine just wanting one I need a coach, so she asked me again, or she mentioned it again. I was like, okay, and I was going through some transitions in my life at that time, trying to figure out whether or not I was going to retire from the Federal Government early or what I was going to do. And so I met with him and I tell you like five minutes into the conversation, I’m like, AHHHHH this is coaching even though we defined it, this is it.

Lyssa deHart

What was the difference that was that, “this is it” for you?

Sophia Casey

It was, it was literally like a light bulb just went off. And the difference was even though, you know, on my job, we had gone from mentoring, like, 100% mentoring to mentoring / coaching. It still wasn’t defined as we define coaching, right? So there was still a lot of telling people what to do and making suggestions. But with this experience, Of actually having a coach, I was mesmerized by how quickly I got awareness around blind spots. And how quickly I got to like, actually hold up the mirror to me and see things that I hadn’t really paid attention to, or just actually didn’t even know existed. So I felt like working with this coach, like we were able to dive deeper then I would have done on my job, as you can imagine. And I tell you I was just, I was smitten. I was like, oh my gosh. So of course, I hired him right away. And then I have the wonderful opportunity to be invited to a coach training, observation to observe some other coaches in coach training 30 minutes into, I think it was like a two-hour seminar or something like that, but about 30 minutes into it again. The bug bit me. I was like, whoa, whoa whoa. What is this? This is still not what my experience was. And how do I have more of this? I signed up for a coach training that day. And haven’t looked back. So fast forward, I went through coach training and then about a year outside of Coach training, I actually apply for my PCC. Credential. So I never got an ACC, because I’ve been coaching quite a bit. So, I went straight to the PCC and then, of course, the rest is history. The road to the MCC, of course.

Lyssa deHart

Well, and you speak to that road between PCC and MCC. What have to shift in the way that you were showing up with yourself and your clients between PCC and MCC?

Sophia Casey

Well, I’ll tell you, what are the things that? And I’m so grateful to have several mentors coaches. But one of my mentor coach suggested that I put my pen down. I was like what? Stop taking notes. I can’t stop taking notes. What she didn’t know. And what I did share with her. I said I actually have a medical condition that impacts my memory. So if I don’t take notes, I’m not going to remember, like how I’m going to remember what the client is saying? So I was like, I don’t know about that. I’ll slow down the note-taking but no notes. Oh no, no, I can’t do that. And she stayed right there with me. And, you know, we talked about what could be the value of me, putting the pin down because what she reflected to me. Is that she can almost hear. Not literally physically, hear me taking notes, but my presence wasn’t as present, [right] taking those trying to remember what the client said. So I was like, okay, I gave in. I was like, okay, uncle uncle, I’m going to try it. And I did try it for several months and I noticed a huge difference, a huge difference. And once I put that pin down and stop taking so many copious notes and every now and then I would want maybe a keyword here and there. But nothing like I was doing before; that’s when I actually passed MCC.

Lyssa deHart

You know what I’d really like to highlight that, because I think that you’re speaking to something that a lot of coaches are… There is this sense of I need to capture every word that the client is saying. I got to try and remember this. I don’t, I mean I don’t have a medical condition that makes it so that I can’t remember things that they said, but I have dyslexia. So I can get tangled up with the words and, and this kind of trying to keep verbatim notes meant that then my attention was shifted to the page. And not, not staying with the client. And I love your the awareness around presence with your client and, and how it’s an incredibly difficult for the human brain to do two things well, the same time.

Sophia Casey

Let’s just say that to all of multi multitaskers, I’m like, yeah, there.

Lyssa deHart

There’s, there’s this task, this task, tthis task, this task, very quickly. No, and I mean, and I think that to your point, also, I did, there’s this thing that showing up as you’re saying that, which is what is the need to know? Right, and how do we kind of break that barrier of, I must understand, I must know every detail of what you’re saying because why? Like what’s when you think back on that? What was it that it was informing you when you knew all the things that your clients had just shared with you?

Sophia Casey

I really like you saying not just being in the in the unknown and having this need to know, but also having the this need to understand, we must understand. I got to understand it, I got to understand it. And what, you know this journey is this challenge of practicing, not taking notes. What it showed me, very loudly was my need to take note, certainly yes, because of my medical condition, now like that’s real. [Yeah] it’s all coming from performance. If I don’t take these notes, I’m not able to regurgitate back what the client says then. I’m not; I’m not here, I’m not really present. I’m not doing something. I’m not working.

Lyssa deHart

I’m not doing something. I’m not earning my keep. Yeah.

Sophia Casey

Ahhhh, And you know, does the client get value out of the conversation. Absolutely. Do they still move forward? Absolutely. But I have definitely noticed the difference. Notice because in the way I ask questions notice the It’s in the way. I shut up. Just be silent. Yeah. Nothing.

Lyssa deHart

You know, and Sophia it’s so interesting too because I think there is this piece around a conceptions of value. Like, how do I provide value for my clients? With the with the, and this is just a hypothesis on my part, but with this sort of the premise of, I must give to you something. So I’ll regurgitate your words back to you. I will, I will try. find the dots, connect the dots, and then hand you the polka dot cake at the end of this whole deal. Yeah.

Sophia Casey

And what that really is, I mean, I love the way that you just described it, that’s still put on me, use my phone as a prop. That’s still putting me in control as the coach. I’m going to listen to you, take the notes connect, make sure I could neck the dots, and then give you this pretty package back. Well, then who’s in control? It’s me. Me, I’m giving it back and so, you know, not taking notes. And of course, I did a lot of other things, you know, in terms of like, just becoming more curious like that played and practice outside of coaching to get curious about things. Listening to my almost 16-year-old talk about this video game for the 15th thousand time. But listening from other place of curiosity, like I just started to play with curiosity and like, oh, wow, I’m not really being curious. That’s not I’m doing. I am listening for answers and for data so like like you said, I can put together the docks and then hand it back to the clients. And I tell you that was a it was a big eye-opener for me. Yeah.

Lyssa deHart

Well, and I think it also speaks to the fact that that’s the shift that that many coaches have to really explore in order to be coaching in MCC. You know, and I agree with you. I don’t think that just because you’re an MCC makes you a great coach and I don’t know that you need to be an MCC in order to be a great coach Ray, but there is a degree of depth of partnership. And and I heard you say this, you know, who’s in control? And they’ve our belief is on some deep level. You are whole capable resourceful creative. I believe that you have the capacity. If I really believe that, who needs to be empowered, right? And how do we then create that scenario and that conversation in which somebody else becomes the person who’s empowered. And and I love that and what you’re talking about, it’s just so crucial, I think. How do you move into that though? I mean, I hear you’re playing with it and you’re playing with it with your son but putting in an awareness. Like, I understand that now into applicable practice, on a regular basis. What allowed you to do that?

Sophia Casey

Well, part of it, of course, is my, my ontological training. My ontological coach training is a huge part of the way I show up in coaching, but also besides the playing, it’s just, accepting every day, every coaching session accepting. I know nothing. That will suck and blow. You know, we have all these acronyms behind our names, right? And we’re proud of it. But part of all the certifications and all those degrees, and all of that. And I am not suggesting that, you know, PCC coaches, throw that away in order to move towards MCC level coaching. I’m just suggesting that they put it in their toolbox. So they know they have it. They can tap into that. But this plane This Playing field that we’re on called MCC. You actually don’t need any of that.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. Yeah and it is, I mean, you know, it’s sort of interesting. So I was I was watching, I don’t know, YouTube probably. and they were documentary. That’s coming up with Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman. And there was a quote, that Joanne Woodward had said, she says, “There’s my ego and there’s your ego, and then there’s our ego. And if we’re working in service of our ego, there’s nothing we can’t do. ” And in a way I think it isn’t that the coach should be ego less, like, no ego. But to your point, how do we show up as more of a clean slate in service of the clients’ ego? And and the “our ego, ” the co-created ego, right?

Sophia Casey

That’s it. What could I do? What could you do to? Keep practicing co-creation? Like we can start there, not even let’s before we even get to the coaching session. How do I create co-creation in my life? [Yes] I think so. We’re going alone, that’s good. If it’s got to be done, I gotta do it myself, right? I mean, think about it, even in our personal lives. How often do we reach out for support? How often do we reach out and say, hey we just get on a brainstorming call with me. Yeah, I know this is my task or my project or my program but I want to co-create this. And I’m a big proponent of co-creation and collaboration. And I’m grateful that I have coaching besties who are too, but I would encourage coaches to practice that. [Yeah] in all aspects of your life. Yeah.

Lyssa deHart

Well and and I absolutely 100% agree with you because I think there is, you know, this I don’t know. I don’t know whether it’s a western cultural idea of I must do this alone or or it’s a control issue because I think sometimes it’s also a like all do it, right? And I don’t trust anybody else will do it as right as I would do it. So there’s that ego piece to write of, I have to do it myself and I’m the only one who can do it right. But wow, what opens up when you, when you start to collaborate with other people?

Sophia Casey

I mean we’re doing it right now, right? Just to have the conversation. I’m like my ideas are like bing bing, bing, bing bing, in my head just from this conversation. We’re co-creating learning right now. And, you know, I would say a big part of it also is to pay more attention to the being. You know, when we get ready to apply for those credentials, we’re all in the doing, right? I am a Queen of doing.

Lyssa deHart

There are things that need to be done. Like you need recordings and you need your mentor coaching.

Sophia Casey

You got to do some stuff, you got to do some shazizzle. [There is some shazizzle to be done. ] Yeah. Then the value of, yes you pay attention to all the things that you have to do on that checklist. Who do you need to be in order to apply for the MCC? Yeah. What do you need to be in order to step fully into MCC? Who do you need to be at the PCC level? To have the most impact, not just on your clients, but on yourself who do you need to be? Who do you want to be? And it’s like that just kind of takes the doing and just sit, sit aside for a moment and like, whoa, now I have a whole other plate playing playground to look at like, who do I need to be who I want to be, I just want to be an MCC. See if you ask me that years ago, was it might just want to be a MCC. See, what do I want to be?

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, and what I mean there is the there is that inquiry around who do you want to be? And how are you thinking? And how does that align, with what you say is important to you? How did you shift from, “I just want to be an MCC” to actually being a person in co-creative partnership with another person.

Sophia Casey

You know, I started to think about what Legacy do I want. To leave. You know, I’m getting emotional over until I say this or think about it. What Legacy do I want to leave for our son. What Legacy do I want to leave for BIPOC coaches? What legacy do I want to leave for women? You know, what legacy do I want to leave for coaches? And when I think about it that way, it’s deeper than what’s my why [yes], go much deeper than what’s my why? I’m talking about here you are. It’s your last day on this Earth. What do you want your legacy to be? And so I do think about that and I asked myself and sometimes it’s hard to ask myself that question. But when I’m when I’m brave enough to ask myself inside of that life, so many answers and inside of that lies who I need to be, in order to create what I want to create on this planet. It’s right there inside of that question. What Legacy do I want to leave a legacy of a planet? That’s better? Because I was here better because I was here where people feel like they belong. People really believe, like it’s more than just a cliche. Like do what my dreams do come true. When I make my dreams come true. like it’s deeper than that. I’m actually going to have the life that I want, because I co-created it.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, and and Sophia, I love what you’re talking about to in the sense of, how we show up in the world? Ultimately translates into what we have in the world. It doesn’t it isn’t an absolute because there are some amazing people and they don’t care about the stuff and they don’t have the stuff and whatever whether it’s it’s a degree or an MCC. But, but the way that you show up in the world and that idea of “being, ” it will manifest how you have relationships, how you have the resources to call on your besties? Your coaching besties to do something. Because you showing up in a way that is that opens itself to that, like for instance for collaboration, if I say I want to be a person in collaboration with people, but I don’t ever show up in a collaborative way with people. It’s going to impact the outcome of that availability for me. So I really appreciate you sharing that out loud because I think it’s so crucial and especially when we’re thinking about coaches creating businesses.

Sophia Casey

Yes, [right] what were you? What do we do? Like, how are you babe? Who I was being then is, I got to do this all by myself. Oh my gosh. I got to figure out this marketing. I got to figure is an LLC. Sole proprietorship? What is it? What is like, even though I got a lot of that support, inside them the coach training program once I crossed that threshold. I did what a lot of coaches do, hunker down close the door, close the windows. And think that I have to figure this all out, by myself happens. When we do that? Get overwhelmed and then I put it down.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, I hear a lot of coaches say also, you know, like I’m scared to put myself out there like I would need to whether it’s on social media or just writing an article on LinkedIn. That’s a concern. And I think in some ways if we have like other people then it’s not just me reading what I wrote and then throwing it into the world. I kind of like checks and balances like Lyssa. I have no idea what that just said. Like what that means like that was nonsense and I can go oh, reel it back. Get into grammarly rethink it, you know? Yeah, like throttle back, real it in, but I mean, but I really, I really think that that being of collaboration that being of curiosity, that being willing to get feedback. All of those things invite what you’re talking about which is this this co-creative partnership with all of your relationships and with your life.

Sophia Casey

And, you know, the thing is, you know, one of the, the gifts, if you will, of the pandemic that I see is that, in many ways, it forced us, or called us forth, to co-create. It’s like we are all in this bucket together. It called us forth to to look over to neighbor. Oh. What’s going on? Are you okay? I’m okay. What are you using? Oh mask and all of this. It was it really a called forth for co-creation. And you know as I do a lot of work with a coach mainly c-suite Executives and you know them being stressed about the great resignation. And a lot of the stress. Has come from a culture of separate and alone. I got to figure this out for myself. I gotta win if I win. I mean, if you win, I don’t win.

Lyssa deHart

Right? There’s no win-win. There’s win-lose. Yeah.

Sophia Casey

Win lose win-lose win lose either or either or and the pandemic really is, I’ll speak for myself. It forced me to co-create. It forced me to figure out something else. It forced me to think about things differently and look at things differntly and take life a lot more seriously. So it’s like, who do I need to be in order to navigate all of that? Yeah, I need somebody who’s open to collaboration. Open to co-creation. Open. Open to not knowing. [Yeah] a work in progress.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah to hunker down and not know.

Sophia Casey

Imagine that it’s usually hunker down do it by myself.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, grind and grind and grind.

Sophia Casey

No later for that. I’m telling you I have come a long way. Grinding was my middle name. But now, the pendulum has swung to wow, what can I create? Because I now relate to it as playing. Who can I play with today? Oh, I get to play with Lyssa today. We get to co-create something that is so much more rewarding than the grinding and the stress that comes from being, a separate and alone, but entrepreneur, who happens to own a coach coaching school, or coaching business. It’s just these. And, you know, I’m so grateful. Our company, the International Coaching and Leadership Institute. Hello. Shout out to ICLI. That’s what we did. Like we are a testament of the power of co-creation. Three of us. Three coaches got together. We want to create what do we want to see more of or less of in the world? Let’s do it. I mean, literally it was that easy.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. And, you know, it’s sort of interesting to like, you talked about like the benefits of, like, kind of the upside of something like covid happening, is it? And I’m just guessing here. So please correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s also from that place of sort of isolation, is this desire to connect with that? Then also opened up some things. So tell me a little bit about how you I mean cuz that’s a big thing, you know, starting a coaching school and and you do it during covid of all things, right? Like…

Sophia Casey

During a pandemic. What were we thinking? During the pandemic? But, you know, I say it was easy, I mean there are tough days, of course, but the co-creation of it was easy. So I’m over here thinking like, oh, wow, and feeling that I’m being called to have a coach training school, but didn’t really share that with people. Okay, that’s just my own thing, right. Suffering alone.

Lyssa deHart

That’s right. Because that’s what we do things around here.

Sophia Casey

That’s my own thing. My own dream right here and had done very well, you know, supporting other coach training schools and was happy in those coach training schools. And so I just, I never really articulated that to people and that. So in December December 2020 as I do every year, I’m About my New Year’s resolutions, I’m thinking about my New Year’s intentions, you know, I call it something different all the time, my mantra for 2021. And I’m by myself, when it’s really quiet, and I was doing some journaling. And I also, like, I said a prayer, you know, I said, you know, I believe my Divine team. You keep saying, you keep nudging at me to do this, is it? Well, why would I do this? Nothing’s broken, I’m good, but I, the nudging is getting louder and louder and louder. So I was like, okay, all right, I’m going to, I’m going to give this a go. I’m going to give this a go and I said, you know, I’ll do this. But you got to send me people that I love. I think that’s a high bar right. You guys send me people that I love and that love me and that I trust. And that trust me. That was December 2020, my coaching bestie and business partner. Now and ICLI, Jessica Lightbourne left me a voice note on January. 19th of 2021, not even a month later. Say Sophia, we need a coach training school, right here in Bermuda. And I’m not doing it without you. And I just wrote back, let’s go. Wait, what?

Lyssa deHart

The universe brings it together.

Sophia Casey

Yeah, together. And then she had a colleague, who I have completely fallen in love with Lorene Phillips, who was a former executive and also an executive coach. And we came together, and we have the conversations that we’re having right now. What do we want to create? What do we want our Legacy to be? What do we want more of or less on this planet? What do we want to see? And that’s how we got formed. Yeah, we had our first cohort in November of 2021 and we’re on cohort, 3 on easy.

Lyssa deHart

That’s amazing and very much of a congratulations on that. And I’m going to ask you a bit more about that in a bit because I’m going to want to know what you’re up to. But what are some, you know, I mean, we’ve talked about quite a few different things. What was it about coaching that? You maybe didn’t expect that? You would that coaching was about that you and I think, I think we may have talked some about this, but is there something you haven’t spoken to, that was like an unexpected “thing” that showed up for you around coaching?

Sophia Casey

I well there are a couple things. First of all, I was coming from being a director of training programs, you know, heavy in the L and D industry and responsible for providing enterprise-wide training. So I come from that that that background. Where we do make recommendations, we do teach people, we do tell people, this is a better idea than that idea. So coming from that mindset if you will, and then being presented with this thing called coaching. I was like, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? I don’t give suggestions but, but the client is struggling, I guess I gotta help them. I gotta help them. So that was one of the biggest like, whoa. It’s not about me telling them what to do and they’re not broken. Yeah, not broken so it’s nothing to fix like wait wait wait wait. I’m in the fixing business. Now your telling me, there’s nothing to fix. Okay, all right, I’m going to play with that of it. There’s nothing to fix and that they’re naturally resourceful. As the ICF says they have the answer like one, you know? So I’m like okay I’ll board this train but I’m still not convinced. So it’s been a journey of really just playing on that playground that playground of the unknown, the playground of trusting the client and trusting the process and trusting myself. That’s been a journey.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. And as you say that, how did your clients do with it? Because I mean clients also come to us with these expectations around mentorship and expectations of you solving and fixing and Right, how did you do? How did you? Because because there’s that tension, right? Like, I really want to trust that your whole, capable, resourceful, creative, and you want me to tell you what to do, which triggers my wanting to tell you what to do. How did you work with your clients on this shift?

Sophia Casey

I tell you it has been a journey because every time a client came and started a question with, “How do I… ” I get excited, oh, they’re asking me how to do something. I can just do my Really is right? And also like I have a very caregiving Spirit. Like, oh, I want to help. I want to care for you. I wanted. Yes. Yes, I’ll give you this. I’ll offer this to you. So I tell you in the beginning of my coaching journey, you know, I say you get the clients that you need. And so let me get the client that you need to practice. And a lot of my clients actually related to me from a Consulting standpoint. So they’d Come to those coaching sessions expecting and asking some of the C-suite. Executives actually demanding. You know, that I tell them that, I give them the answers. And even that’s co-creation, even that right there. So, in the beginning of my coaching journey, was I actually co-creating? Nah, I wasn’t really co-creating. I was suggesting suggesting suggesting figure it out like you said earlier, putting all the docs together right? Cross crossing the t’s dot the I’s. Yeah, did my client. Get value from the work that they did with me. Of course, I would like, I have a social media proof, the testimonials right to prove it, and I’m grateful for that. And now, when I look at my interaction with the clients that I have now, It’s not, I don’t feel like it’s so much that my clients have changed. I’ve changed. [Yeah] and now I’m wanting to co-create with them. Co-create. And lean more towards them, generating the answers, and then generating what’s best for them. So I still do, I still get those? Absolutely. Like I said.

Lyssa deHart

How do you handle that when you have somebody who’s like, Sophia I just need your opinion on XYZ?

Sophia Casey

I get asked, probably, by every client I have. And, and typically, what I do is, you know, I say the coach client relationship, it is just that it’s a relationship that evolves. And so, usually a few months into our engagement, they’ve come to learn me. I’ve come to learn them. And they now what I hear a lot, I know what you’re going to say, you’re going to throw it back to me, gonna pass it back to me in some that’s what I do most times it’s saying, you know, I’m happy to share with you what. I see will you are you willing to start with what you’ve seen?

Lyssa deHart

I love that I love that and I do that to, you know, with my clients where I’m like, I’m really I’m always curious when especially with a C-Suite or an Executive who wants to ask somebody else to solve a problem for them. Like, it’s always so interesting to me since that is sort of their job. And what is in the way of you playing. With it and I think it’s often, you know, it’s uncomfortable not to just know, right?

Sophia Casey

It’s un comfortable. They’re they’re paid know, they’re paid accolades and awards for knowing they get promoted for knowing.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. And then to like kind of suss around and playing with this idea of what if we don’t know and what if we just play with ideas and and that I think is such a beautiful space in the coaching world where we can really without a lot of because you don’t have to do any of the things, right? Like it’s not to commit to forever. You’re just like let’s just test ideas, right?

Sophia Casey

I’m telling you I got that. And I’m still getting it right? Who’s more fluid it? But learning is fluid. When I got that I don’t have to work so hard I was working hard at the beginning of my coaching career I mean really hard making. Sure I had all the templates and [and you had the notes going on] Right copious notes. Not just any kind of notes. Copious nores I was working really hard. I didn’t know that I was because it was just my normal but now where I am now when I look back I was like OMG, I was working hard because I was doing most of the work.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah most of the were and when you think about your clients then and I know they got benefit, but you think of your clients. Now, do you notice that your clients have more You know the word that’s showing up for me because it’s a word. I use a lot but like that embodied knowledge. Like they own it more. I mean what has been your experience with your clients as a result of like tossing the bag, back to them a little bit and be like before we like, I’ll share what I’ve got. But let’s first. See what you’ve got? What do you notice is the outcome for them with the things that are important to them?

Sophia Casey

First of all, I noticed that they come up with much better ideas than I had.

Lyssa deHart

Big, aha, whoa.

Sophia Casey

Better ideas than I have. Oh my God. I hadn’t thought about that. They come up with better ideas and they feel better because they own it. Like I am a witness to the difference between somebody who was given something, they owned it for some ownership, versus someone who owned it from the outset. [Yeah] Owned it. Created it, nourished it. And here’s the great thing, I tell, you know, coaching students, this all the time, you still get to take credit because you co-created that safe and sacred space for them to actually do that. So I can take some credit. And you’re going to get lots of credit and testimonials and accolades and they’re going to talk about how great you are and how much they love coaching. You’ll get all of that, you’ll get more of that by leaning back.

Lyssa deHart

I love that. Yeah I and I think it’s true because I mean you actually have clients who feel empowered going back to an earlier thing that you would said which is then empowerment of agency. And and then and I’ve always kind of thought it was interesting. You know, one, client I used to have client. I used to teach anger management for the military and I would have people would be like, Lyssa. How long do I have to be in, Anger Management and I’d be like, don’t know how courageous you are. I don’t know how much you want to change this. I don’t know what you’re capable of. Like those are unknowns to me. So you may be able to do this in like a month or it may take you 25 years, like it’s up to you, I don’t know. And but I but I could never be able to just like Cookie Cutter. Like this is the solution to your anger because sometimes the angers appropriate, sometimes the angers inappropriate. It sometimes it’s effective. Sometimes it’s not effective and it was that testing of things that they had to go through in order to discover what their own answers were for their experience that they were in. And that’s what I’m really hearing you say with your coach clients and with your coach students is we have to trust that they the ownership has to be with the client.

Sophia Casey

It has to be and and you know I say something I promise I promise I don’t make a lot of promises, I can’t keep. But I promise you, it feels so much better.

Lyssa deHart

You don’t have to remember so much.

Sophia Casey

You don’t have to remember so much and just to witness. I really believe I said, that’s my wife is joking about, I’m addicted. I’m clear that I’m addicted to this work. What I’m addicted to is bearing witness to that to build getting it and, oh my gosh, you know it’s like the Wizard of Oz and Dorothy like what do you mean I had this with me all along. What I had this all along. You had it? Yeah, I’m just grateful that I got to go for the ride.

Lyssa deHart

You know, it’s a funny. I never I didn’t I haven’t put it together with the Wizard of Oz until this moment. So thank you for that. You had it with you all along So let me ask you this? What question have I not asked you that you think would be important for coaches to know about coaching, or about what question have I not asked?

Sophia Casey

Well, you know, the first of all, you ask me, great questions and and what keeps coming up and I feel like it’s kind of a running theme, in our conversation today is, is getting to the who. Getting to the, who, you them, the planet, everybody on the planet. Get to the whole, get to the person, the person, The Who, The Soul, how they’re showing up that? A game changer.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, I love that.

Sophia Casey

A game changer.

Lyssa deHart

I love that.

Sophia Casey

A Game changer and I was like, I wish I had known that. In the beginning of my career.

Lyssa deHart

But you wouldn’t have been ready for it, right?

Sophia Casey

No, no, I wouldn’t have been able to hear it, you know?

Lyssa deHart

And I see that with young coaches, sometimes you say that to them and it is like, bounces, right? Off the top of their head. They’re just not there yet. They don’t, they have, they have a journey to do to get to the place, of the importance of the being, and the importance of the who. And so. But I really appreciate that.

Sophia Casey

What I’m learning about that is in, this is like recent learning because I’ve just been exploring this a lot. That the level of your awareness around who focusing on the who that’s it. That’s it. It could be different levels. At the Associate certified coach level, it’s like, oh, noticing that somebody else is on the other side of the screen or on other side of this table. So, yeah, I mean, I’m in touch with the who the person. And then, as you move up and get deeper and deeper into your learning and deeper and deeper, into letting go. Now, what do you see and notice about the who? The person? the being? And then MCC say, one time, My mentor coach is like, do I get to talk at all? But I didn’t talk at all to bring it in. Do I get to talk at all? And it’s I don’t need to. Yeah, I don’t need to. On one of my calls I that, that I submit it for my MCC. I spoke for 7 minutes and an hour long call. Seven Minutes.

Lyssa deHart

Those were some very concise questions.

Sophia Casey

Concise questions and, you know, as I’m reflecting back and I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting back as I support coaches, as their Mentor coach and listening to that car. The action, three or four columns, but listening to those calls again, like, oh, so the questions were very clear. But it was more than that. From the outset of that coaching session. I was like this, who who is she being? But what’s happening? And what does she say? I wonder what that means.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah. Because you can ask a very simple concise question that leads the client into something like that, like how do you want to have your schedule look versus? How would you like your life to feel? Right? Very different questions.

Sophia Casey

Very, very different questions. And if you ask me the first way, I’m going to get you, probably a checklist.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, like, I’m gonna need to color code my calendar.

Sophia Casey

A journalling calendar. I’m gonna give you a list but the second way you asked makes me whoo. Wow, I don’t want my life to be like what, why we’re talking about my whole life? I’m just talking about my calendar.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, we’re never talking just about your calendar.

Sophia Casey

Never t alking about your calendar. Yeah, never, yeah. That think about the times, you know, in my coaching sessions and what I’m the Coachee, and I’m being coached the times where the tears just flowed and like uncontrollably the times where I was shocked by my shock and my awareness and these aha moments. Those are Are the times where I wasn’t being told what to do?

Lyssa deHart

You know, I don’t think we have enough conversation. I mean, when you think about it, I mean and I asked people this and so I’ll just ask you also. How many people do you? You are slightly different, but so roll back about 10 years. How many people do you really have in your life who A. Have zero attachment to your outcome? And are like willing to ask you open-ended unbiased questions because they’re not attached to you having a certain outcome. I mean in for most of us it’s a big old goose egg, right?

Sophia Casey

Huge Goose egg. Because we have to get somewhere and if it’s not about us getting somewhere, we’d have to get the other person somewhere. There’s somewhere to get to. Yeah. Somewhere to get to and you know, to be fair all of us you know beings, in many probably most cultures on this planet. We are applauded for knowing.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah Mastry becoming Mastery level. At something, whether it’s a woodworker or whether it’s a painter or whether it’s, you know, lawyer, it doesn’t matter. What your your skill set is becoming masterful is a really huge deal for most human beings in most cultures.

Sophia Casey

It really is, you know, when it’s it’s again, like I said at the top of this conversation is not that I’m suggesting you throw that out, you throw that knowing out. I’m just suggesting you don’t lead with it.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, beautiful. And on that note, I just really would love to hear. What are you and what are you passionate about today? What are you working on?

Sophia Casey

I am forever or passionate about Mentor coaching you know I had some quiet time last weekend and and you know was asking myself again what Legacy you want to leave? Because I do a lot of journaling around that question. and, I can’t express the joy that I experienced from mentoring coaches. It’s just it’s, it’s just the best. That coupled with Coach training. I would do it forever. Do you forever? Yeah, I love coaching the one-on-one stuff too, but it’s something about supporting coaches. Yeah, with actually experiencing this work on a deeper level and having businesses that work. That they love but they jump out of bed for. That is my passion, that is my passion and I’m grateful, you know, you know For our company, ICLI that, you know, my business besties worry Lorene Phillips and Jessica Lightborne, like we get to do it every day. We get to do it every day. We get to enjoy that coach training and seeing that those light bulbs go off and then I get to go even deeper as a mentor coach, the other light, bulbs going off. I tell you. I actually just got a text today, from a mentee said, I did it. I did it. Coach Sophia. I have my PCC. It’s so excited. I’m sitting like all these emojis. I’m leaving voice text. But that feeling and I just sat in it for a moment. Yeah, side it feels so good. I t felt so good.

Lyssa deHart

I t’s really paying that forward. I think it’s really a way of paying it foreward and so as I have just absolutely adored this conversation. As we as we come to a close here today if you were writing your autobiography Ms Sophia, what would the title be?

Sophia Casey

It was about this up and it changes, but what’s coming up for me? Most loudly, is that it would be called Seven Minutes.

Lyssa deHart

Beautiful. And to find out more about those seven minutes. Please connect with her. They’ll be links to everything on the web page and everything. So I’m so grateful for you coming and playing on the studio today. I thank you so much.

Sophia Casey

Thank you. Thank you. So grateful.

Lyssa deHart

You’re so welcome. Thank you.

I hope you enjoy these lively conversations.

If you do, please hit that subscribe button below for notifications of upcoming episodes. I plan to roll them out regularly, so thank you again for being here, and I look forward to “seeing” you on the next episode.

Please share with the people you think may enjoy meeting real coaches and experts, making an impact in the world, getting to know them on their journey, and discovering what wisdom they would offer you about being a better coach!

Other Podcast Episodes

To discover more about this podcast, check out what we are about.

Are you a coach making a difference in the world of coaching? Are you interested in being on the show? Click here for more information about becoming a guest.

Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC

Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC

Host

Lyssa deHart ditched her therapy practice to become a Leadership Confidence Coach. Along the way she discovered a passion for professional coaching and wanted to find ways to share that passion with the world. Come join her in discovering and meeting some of the most amazing professional coaches on the planet. Her goal is to inspire coaches. Lyssa is the author of StoryJacking: Change Your Dialogue, Transform Your Life , and The Reflective Coach. Lyssa is an ICF PCC Assessor, Certified Mentor Coach, and budding Coach SuperVisor. Lyssa uses her understanding of the ICF Core Competencies, combined with her knowledge of Neuroscience, to work with people to become extraordinary professional coaches. Let's Go!

Lyssa deHart Coaching participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates affiliate program. The hope is to earn commissions by linking to Amazon and help support the website and the podcast. This means that whenever you purchase from a link on this website you will be taken to Amazon, and we receive a tiny percentage of the purchase price. We thank you for supporting us in this way. Our Privacy Policy.

You can also support Lyssa in the production of the podcast and her YouTube Videos by buying her a coffee. Every little bit helps, and Lyssa loves her coffee!