Season , Episode

Welcome to the Coaching Studio Podcast

This podcast features fun, lively conversations with masterful coaches who are creating an impact. Get to know them, their journey into coaching, and discover what wisdom they would offer you about being a better coach.

Let’s go!

Join Donna Zajonc, MCC and I as we explore the Dreaded Drama Triangle

the Coaching Studio Guest

I am very excited to welcome Donna Zajonc, MCC to the Coaching Studio Podcast.

Credits

  • Host: Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC
  • Music: Frolic by Harrison Amer
  • Production Editing: Lyssa deHart
  • Social Media and Communications: Michele Logan

About This Episode

Read the transcript of this episode of the Coaching Studio Podcast:

Lyssa deHart

Hello and welcome to the coaching studio. I’m Lyssa deHart your host today and today I welcome into the studio, somebody I live very close to Donna Zajonc. Thank you Donna so much for being on the show.

Donna Zajonc

Yeah.

Lyssa deHart

Um Donna is an MCC with the International Coaching Federation. She is also the director of coaching for the Center for the Empowerment Dynamic. In 2017 Donna received the Washington State Excellence in Coaching Award. Donna’s concern with the world drew her into politics where she served three terms in the Oregon legislature and was her party’s nominee for Secretary of State, deeply curious about the inner landscape of the human mind. Donna fully embraced professional coaching in 2001. Later joining her husband, David Emerald in their Three Vital Questions and the Power of TED, The Empowerment Dynamic leadership training, coaching, and facilitation. Donna lives in the pacific northwest of the United States and enjoys frequent walks on the beach. Good books, devouring dark chocolate, sipping microbrews, and enjoying time with their family. Donna also has an upcoming book Who do you want to be on the way to what you want coaching with the empowerment dynamic. The book is set to release on March 1st of 2022 there’s a quick review that earlier guests gave, “This book brings to life the coaching process so you can integrate its methods into your own conversations. As enjoyable as it is enlightening. ” And that was by dr Marcia Reynolds, author of coach, the person not the problem and outsmart your brain but also our very first guest on the coaching studio. So gosh, welcome so much to the coaching studio today, Donna. I’m so glad to have you here.

Donna Zajonc

Thanks. It’ll be a fun conversation

Lyssa deHart

I think that it will also and it’s really sort of interesting, one of the things that struck me as I was, you know, getting ready for our interview today was this journey that you took from really being a nurse, working in the mental health industry, into being in politics and then into coaching. I would love to hear how you navigated that particular arc?

Donna Zajonc

Yes, it is an arc, isn’t it? When we look back now over several decades. Um my undergraduate degree is in nursing and I immediately specialized and got interested in mental health nursing, community, mental health nursing. And then it goes back to my again, my love of the human mind, who we are as human beings and that curiosity led me into the profession of mental health nursing as I worked more in the profession, I got a master’s in public administration and it became more and more interested in public policy. So I ran for the legislature first nurse that was elected in the Oregon Legislature, thinking that maybe the best way to influence the world is rather than patient by patient, more policies. And so that’s what took me into public life um Shared the Governor’s task force on mental health deinstitutionalization. This is in the 80s. So it’s a ways back. So that’s how I got from clinical work into public policy. Did some other things in my mid-life, including have a family and um later in life now, 20 years ago I discovered coaching and I felt that that really brought the both sides of me into play. In that the human development as well as working with teams and organizations and a multitude of people through frameworks through accelerating insight uh to be of service. And that’s what all of this is about, isn’t it, Lyssa? We want to be a service in the world. So that’s a that’s a quick look at how they all connect sometimes I wonder myself, but there is a pattern I now look back and see.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, it is interesting as you look back and you start to see all the connecting dots that that coalesce into where we find ourselves in a particular moment. And I think one of the things that you just said also is really accelerating the learning and I mean through your through the Center for the Empowerment, right, there’s this acceleration. I’m sure that you see happen, is coaches come through a program like that, learning how to utilize their own curiosity around whether it’s the Drama Triangle or conversely, the Empowerment um Dynamic then what what has sort of been the way that you see coaches using this, this information and material in order to be better at coaching their own clients?

Donna Zajonc

Yes, well that’s been a journey to, hasn’t it about how coaching is unfolded. And we have all kinds of assessments, we have all kinds of tools and that I use. I’ve gotten many um Certifications and that is very helpful to support people to have greater insight into their patterns and who they are. What has been working for me is working with the drama triangle first articulated in the 1960s by Dr. Steven Karpman and he boiled down what now psychology clearly has verified. That there’s three primary reactions we human beings take on when we’re uncomfortable with what’s going on in the moment. And those three roles Dr. Karpman said is we feel victimized and we disengage step back, Oh powerless, or we lean against and try to take control and when that aspect comes forward in us, he named that as the Persecutor. Now the Persecutor doesn’t want to ever be the victim. So that’s a real conflict. And when that happens a third role, Dr. Karpman named as the rescuer or the hero who doesn’t want to see people in conflict. So they have a real need to please to solve to fix. And boy those three patterns I learned about those in psychiatric nursing and as I worked with them more I thought wow they’re brilliant and when I would share them with my coaching clients I would they would just pause and immediately say things like, “Well I know which one I am. ” It would so accelerate insight and what developed with working with David is is that there’s positive aspects in us, who we truly are and those three roles are what we call the antidote, the empowerment dynamic to those three roles and I can name those in just a moment but let me stop and see if you have any other questions about this idea of how we accelerate as coaches to offer our clients insight?

Lyssa deHart

Well and I mean and I think that’s that’s a really interesting question, there are a couple of things that are coming up as you’re talking, one is just the resonance that we often feel when we’re sharing a story that we are caught somewhere in this drama triangle which typically we are when we’re sharing this story because we’re like ah and then and the ah-ha of oh yeah, I know which role I’m in. If not even spiraling through all of them depending on the circumstance. So, so is in your work with organizations or with individuals, talk to me I guess about that acceleration what you see happening and how it impacts people?

Donna Zajonc

Well, it impacts people because most people want to be their best self and when, when you can name and articulate an aspect of ourselves that is blocking or blinding us or binding us from being our best selves. Most people want to know about that now, not always depending on the stage of readiness and all that we also know about human development. But what we have learned is that when you introduce it, then folks say, okay, so how do I get out of this? And then that’s the opening for the coach, the consultant, the facilitator to share the frameworks with. Here’s who you really are. Here’s the essence of your best self. And David and I have named those essence down to being antidotes to the drama triangle roles. there’s a real largeness to this in that sense that the victim antidote we call the creator, that part of us that is that natural, innate creative intelligence that wants to respond to our deep longings. The antidote to the part of us that wants to control and be domineering and try to keep the chaos under control. That part of us we call the Challenger and it is the positive aspect where are will lives, where are strong authentic truth-teller lives. So the Challenger then leads to the 3rd roll the antidote to antidote to the rescuer. And that is what we call the coach. Now we don’t, we say it’s small C doesn’t have to be a professional coach. All of us have curiosity, all of us if we can work with the feeling of not knowing and dig deep into wow what could be going on here together, those three roles, Creator, Challenger coach speaks to the best of us. So now we have a continuum.

Lyssa deHart

Oh and I just I was just gonna say I love the idea that that that it’s an antidote and that I mean these things exist because we’re human beings and there are these antidotes if we choose to do the work to gravitate towards them and there was something with the victim having the antidote of the creator. I love that because it is what I see most coaches trying to do in coaching is help somebody who’s maybe stuck in a victim role in some way. I don’t like my boss, I don’t like my job, I don’t like my life, I’m not happy, I don’t, la la la la, whatever that is. And trying to help them move into that creative space. What I see often happening though is that people do that by telling people what they need to do versus inviting that curiosity, which is what you’re saying is instead of coming in as the enabler, you know where you’re making them feel okay and making it all right. But coming in instead in curiosity, am I hearing you correctly in?

Donna Zajonc

Yeah, absolutely. And the part of nurse nursing, the part of coaching that we use the language typically that we see others as whole, resourceful, and complete this is the aspect of the creator essence that we are this. And you are that now, what we have found, what I found in working with hundreds of coaches now and teaching and using this framework to support who they are as a coach is that they may take that on that phrase. I see my client and myself, as whole, resourceful, and complete, more as an intellectual exercise rather than really believing it down deep in the heart. And that’s where if we don’t really believe this and it’s hard because we want to be of service. So we can get triggered as I’ll just say as helpers or in the helping human dynamic profession, we can get triggered when people don’t go as fast as we think they should or they don’t have the insight from our brilliant questions that we think they should. So what I work with is to help coaches get this in their bones, do they see themselves as creator, essence, whole, resourceful and complete And I bet you would guess that it’s more than a majority of coaches say, oh my gosh, I haven’t even considered this for myself, I think about it in terms of my clients.

Lyssa deHart

Well. and that was something that really came up, so thank you so much for the pre-copy of your book. So I could peruse it a bit and I do think it’s gonna be fabulous. I didn’t get the chance to read the entire thing, but the parts that I was reading is that it is the work that we have to do ourselves. It is that that embodiment of that belief in our clients is whole capable and resourceful, right? And that that is a, that is a vital shift in the way that we show up as human beings. And I know in your book and I’m gonna just bring a little bit forward here because there was a part where you’re talking about these questions that you were beginning to ask yourself and you were hearing often like, “Why did the same roles keep appearing drama roles keep reappearing in my life now that I know about the drama triangle, Why am I still getting stuck in it? How do I stop myself from getting into the drama triangle in the first place and your all-time favorite. How can I get others to shift, how can I get you to shift out of it and into the empowerment dynamic? ” And that that sense of oh I’ve been doing this work, I shouldn’t be still dealing with it. And yet you were still dealing with it.

Donna Zajonc

10 years later as one of the co-authors of this work. And so I went through a real um Mhm imposter syndrome now is very popular. And boy did I have that in that I’m teaching this work and I can get triggered my husband, my kids, by news in a moment’s notice. Because what happens with this internal operating system with how we make meaning in our stories and you have done that so well with your StoryJacking book is that what we see and think about evokes an emotion. And then we respond to that emotion, even though we have fooled ourselves that we’re just solving this problem that our thoughts are thinking about. And when we understand the human development operating system that it’s really our emotions, that were responding to. Now, we have an entirely different possibility of where we focus on what we work with. Because we also now know from the neuroscience that depending on the strength of that story, that the amygdala hijack can happen in less than a second and put us into a highly reactive place. So now we’ve got our neurology and our thoughts colluding to keep us stuck in this drama triangle. So as I again, psychiatric nursing mental health nursing as I studied more the neurology that started really developing in the last couple of decades, I got a lot of epiphanies around giving myself a break. Oh my God, this is the human experience. So now as a coach, what’s my role? My coaches, my role is to first understand my own triggering my own neurology, my own in strong need to show up as capable, successful. And how much that was interrupting that chatter was interrupting my ability to be present to my clients, to be bold challengers when I got scared, maybe they wouldn’t like Anyway, that kind of thing really started happening for me to take care of myself and respond to those questions, Those those are great questions and those are all real questions. I mean that hands would go up and that’s the main four questions we heard all the time. Okay.

Lyssa deHart

Well, and I think that’s really crucial also for anybody listening to this. If you any of those questions resonate for you, you are not alone. This is the challenge of human development, human evolution, your own personal evolution as you are able to take what you know logically like, we know things on a on a mental level, we understand our heads are like, yes, this is the truth. But bringing that into our bodies and feeling the truth of it are often there’s a tension there.

Donna Zajonc

Oh, a big tension. And when we have a big part of our coaching curriculum is around holding and relaxing into the dynamic tension that always exists in this gap between what we say we want and what we actually have. And the challenger and us must tell the truth about what we actually have, not minimize, marginalize and the creator and us is that part of us that languages and says, what are my longings? What do I care about? But what I want to go back to that you tee’d up is how important for us as coaches to do our own work first. And then when we can apply these drama roles in this continuum that I spoke about just a second ago because the drama Triangle roles are not all bad and the ted roles are not always all good. There’s a continuum between us and it’s waking up to the choice points holding the tension of our uncomfortable feelings and then being very curious, very reflective about what’s going on before we make that choice. And we um so let me stop with that again too because it’s so important.

Lyssa deHart

it’s that’s really, I think so important because there is this tension, right? And between fear and I’m going to just call it fear. This comes from my own sort of background and how I think of it. I really sort of see the continuum of fear to safety. And if we’re in a fear state and that shows up as anger, whatever that is, right, um not good enough. Not enough, whatever the, what did we call it? The imposter syndrome. Right? There’s some sort of undercurrent there that says I’m not enough whatever the enough is to this sense of safety. How do we become creative is by stepping out. Like recognizing, acknowledging, “Hey, I’m not feeling very good about myself in this moment or I’m feeling uncomfortable in this situation. ” What do we do then to step back so that we can access the curiosity in our brain based on what you were talking about earlier. You know, we know when the chemical cocktail releases the ability to think in a kind of a consequential sort of way is gone because we’re in fight, flight, freeze or freak out. And how then do we how do we allow ourselves to take that breath so that we can step back and become that curious person?

Donna Zajonc

Well isn’t that the heart of the the bold question around who we are as coaches? To create an environment, so there is that safety that there can be a pause, it’s the kind of questions we ask when we sense someone is in a story and a rising uncomfortable feelings, we stop and we, “is it okay if we take a moment to do some breathing? ” We do we coach with the somatic principles in mind that allow us to calm our own neurology so that we could have a whole podcast on that and I know you have with some of your other guests that is so essential. Um meditation, to build our muscle to catch those triggers. So in our coaching with the empowerment dynamic curriculum, I I call it so TED is for short the empowerment dynamic, we have some TED tools and one of the key ones is to breathe, no surprise, isn’t it? But what is that space that occurs just before we make a choice to either go down more reactivity, or to choose and pause and be reflective, be curious and choose a more empowering role? That space is what really excites me and interests me. And that spaces where we teach learning how to be trigger intelligent how.

Lyssa deHart

Oh I love that.

Donna Zajonc

how to sense what’s arising for some people, you can have one client who said he, he started sweating under his armpits and he knew immediately he was in some sort of reactive chatter or had already said it out loud, He didn’t get it intellectually, he started feeling himself sweating. So it doesn’t matter how we get it. “No. ” You know, we learn to sense that for me, it’s a tight, tight gut and as I get older, I can feel it fluttering. Um I slowed down so there’s lots of things we can do to become more trigger intelligent uh to address what you’re talking about. Um The other thing I want to say is is that there’s also an intellectual insight that goes on here, and it’s very important in our curriculum that we teach this concept that when you go reactive and get stuck, are trapped and racing around these drama triangle roles. It can be a real gift because there’s something you care about that’s got you triggered.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah,

Donna Zajonc

we’ll just go onto the next thing we know that is

Lyssa deHart

That is absolutely crucial. And I’d like to just stop for a moment and just say that again, which is there’s something important that’s getting triggered that we have to well, “have to” is a very big word, but that that offers us the opportunity to explore into to find out what that is. But again, that, you know, using your breath as a way of centering so that you can then become curious about what that strong response is. Trying to invite you to look at.

Donna Zajonc

There’s a gift there, that’s just not quite unwrapped yet. And that’s where uh intellectually we teach the importance of understanding that the DDT is not bad. It’s actually um an opportunity to learn That challenger in us that wants to learn and grow and see that’s counterintuitive to most people in my work for 10, 15 years as I developed with David, The Empowerment Dynamic work. It was counterintuitive to me to see my drama as a gift because it’s pointing me to something that I care about and it’s probably almost always unconscious. So that is an intellectual principle. I’ll just say a philosophical principle that we teach in our work that coaches tell me is a game-changer, because they mainly try to help themselves and their clients to stop going reactive, which really represses whatever that’s going on that wants to rise and teach us.

Lyssa deHart

I want to just say DDT dreaded Drama Triangle. So, for anybody who hears the acronym, they’ll be like, oh, that’s what that meant. Um but this is so interesting. I just got an email from somebody asking me to do by telling me about the videos that I do, and I have said, is there anything, in particular, you’d be interested in seeing a video on? And they’d come back with what do you do with really strong emotions. And in some ways, this is exactly that, right, Like we get triggered by our clients, really strong emotion. And then we, and if we’re not trigger intelligent and noticing what’s coming up for us and having an opportunity to explore it may be outside of the coaching session. You know, afterwards taking the time to be self-reflective about what’s happening, then we’re then we push that away each time our client might bring a strong emotion or a strong reaction to something. And you’re really inviting, move towards the antidote of first curiosity for yourself and then curiosity with your client.

Donna Zajonc

Yes. And in our coaching classes, it’s all about doing the inner work first. Because it’s very, very difficult to create this safe space and this inviting space for your client if you haven’t first seen and experienced, what does the joyous, glorious feeling that arises when you really get down deep the creator essence, the innate wisdom intelligence that is inside of you. If you simply listen, it’s not necessarily simple, but it’s counterintuitive for our Western world to trust ourselves. And then when we get triggered, there’s wisdom there, if we can hold it and listen. and that’s what’s really the story that’s pretty unique in my book and that I wanted coaches to hear a dialogue from a Master Coach as she’s coaching a very headstrong client. So to the book, who do you want to be on the way to what you want is a story. And Sophia is the main character master coach. She has a very strong desire to be useful in the world to be helpful, influential, you know, she’s my story really. And in meeting this very headstrong young CEO woman who is a third generation over owner of a construction company whose um just about as difficult a client as there is. And so over the few chapters of Sophia willing to coach her and share the drama triangle and to share The Empowerment Dynamic and then share some of the TED tools of teaching her some basic listening skills. It’s a story about how we hear Sophia in her own inner dialogue with herself as she’s coaching. She will be dimissed dismissive to herself or she’ll get triggered. And what I wanted to do is enlivened this internal conversation for all coaches, but especially beginning coaches who may not understand how important it is to hold at least two things at once. Our own inner dialogue, as we’re listening to our clients, and then it’s like an infinity sign. And then are responding inner dialogue to whatever they’re saying and being able to hold and here, that really juicy dynamic is what this book is about.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, and I mean, what I’m also hearing here that is so important to this evolution of moving from being helpful to being useful as a coach, right? Is that ability to have that ability to hold your own curiosity about yourself with the curiosity of what’s showing up and then be transparent in being curious about it, versus assuming we understand what it means for another person also.

Donna Zajonc

So it’s one of my favorite parts of the dialogue that I heard through me on my walk between Sophia and RJ, is, Sophia taught RJ the difference between open curiosity and probing curiosity and RJ of course, says, what do you mean? I’ve never thought about the difference. And, you know, with that conversation, Sophia shares that oftentimes we say we’re curious but were actually reflecting upon and trying to find something that we’ve already made our minds about. That must be there in that open curiosity of curious space. When we’re probing we push and it’s usually unconscious because we think we’re supposed to find something. And that just blew RJ’s mind. And the idea of truly being open, means you don’t know. It means there may not be anything that you will find. But this path of being curious when you don’t know is the aspect, it’s more than an aspect, it’s a way of being as a couch. And it can be very unsettling when you when you say I really don’t know. But it also can be great freedom.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, well, and it’s wonderful freedom for your client because if you don’t know and you’re the coach and you’re asking questions though because you’re curious and you’re not embroiled in their situation. You have that clarity of distance to be curious with them on their behalf. It allows them to discover the knowing that already lives inside of them. And so that really brings me to your own journey towards MCC. And what I’m hearing is something that is at least reflective for me in my own journey. Is there is the journey towards letting go of needing to know, and the expertise, what shows up as you with that for you?

Donna Zajonc

I’m immediately remembering one of my mentor coaches when I first started 20 years ago. Um and I was working so hard. You know Lyssa, I had a set of questions right here by in those days, we just worked on the phone by my phone, which is great because nobody could see that I had a list of my favorite questions and I was scanning him and she must have heard me heard me, scanning. And she said Donna technique is what you do, until the coach shows up. Oh, but of course it was 20 years ago. And so look at the impression it made on me. I was trying to be technique oriented, was trying to be skillful. And this next brilliant question that was going to come out of my mouth and that journey to letting go as a coach. I would say really only took root when I let go and the rest of my life. Mm hmm I let go drama trauma with my kids or with the world. Really believing that down deep. I have no idea what’s going to come about. You know, that’s why in our work, we love baby steps. All I really need to know is what is the next step in front of me. And that’s that’s how I wrote a book. Literally that, a paragraph at a time. So this journey um to tell you the truth, it was it certainly had its ups and downs because I am a very get er done type lady, and I like that about me. But it also runs counterintuitive to letting go. To admitting you have no idea what’s going on. And I say that now to my clients more than ever. Um well, what just happened? You know, that kind of Yeah, just sensing what just happened in the space. So, I don’t know if that addresses your question?

Lyssa deHart

Well, it really does because I mean, it’s there. I think there’s the again, going back to the tensions, right? The tension. We spend so much of our lives trying to become experts at something and being the authority on X, Y, Z. And to come into the coaching space and be like, you know, to be like, I don’t know. For you, I don’t know, I know maybe I know for myself, but I can’t ever know what is right for you. And so to be in that state of wonder with another human being. And it really goes back to something that you had said earlier, you know, around you know, deeply curious about the inner landscape of the human mind that that means we have to be curious. Not that I know your inner mind, but that I’m curious about your inner mind and I mean you really just say that the very, very beginning of what we started talking about right?

Donna Zajonc

And the coach has got to be curious about your inner mind and I am still surprised by how many experienced coaches show up to our classes and it’s a revelation that some of the exercises we asked them to do, to listen. Um you know, in the book, I ask RJ as she’s starting to get on board with some of these ideas. I asked her to uh take an app out, and name and notice, name and notice of behavior and just describe it very briefly. Because again, what we know from neurology is when you name something an emotion, the more granular you can be, the more specific you can be, about the hate behavior, now we have a relationship with it. It’s the subject-object education and psychology is that we are no longer subject to it, which means in our work we’re no longer victims to it because there’s so much victim mentality going on to our unconscious stories and minds and emotions when we can wake up the inner observer, that’s noticing this very dynamic human landscape. It’s a big wow and most of all this of what happens, and I know you’ve discovered this now, it’s a full-on requirement of compassion. Sometimes we can even get in a more um persecuting inner persecutor as we see in the story with Sophia, her inner persecutor shows up a lot. And that’s when compassion for this universal human experience is so uh so essential to wake up to this. So it starts with the coach waking it up because you absolutely cannot hear the meaning, making internal landscape of our clients, if you can’t hear it in your own mind. Love it. Just so curious about the human operating system. Love that mystery. Now, you can show up with others with such love and a new appreciation, you know, I get pretty excited about all this.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, no, and I love that you’re getting so excited about it because it’s so it’s such a rich terrain to explore. Um one of the things that has been showing up with a lot of my clients is that sort of the Buddhist philosophy of compassionate detachment, right? Like how do we sit in compassion with somebody’s experience, but detached from their outcome? And I just, I mean that shows up for me again in this conversation probably because it’s just showing up for me in my life. Um and so I hear it everywhere. But it is that sense of like how do we honor the other human being to be whole, capable, resourceful, I tend to add creative to it and um and how do we do that?

Donna Zajonc

And we do it first by doing it for ourselves and many, many coaches, when we’re in a room with coaches, we say what is your default drama role when you go reactive do you tend to react and go into the “oh woe is me” victim mode? Or do you tend to lean in and take control? You tend to be more of the rescuer helper. About 80%. No surprise rescuer to help her. But you know, there’s both a role thing here going on. But there’s also uh let me make a real quick distinction between victimhood and victimization. [yes please] We’ve all been victimized before. The simple thing like the long line in the grocery line is um is a small victimization. If we’re attached to racing out the store, somebody cutting off in traffic, a disease, a hurricane, a fire. There are so many things we’ve been victimized, we’re not talking about that. This work is about victimhood. It’s an identity of how you’re making meaning to whatever is occurring in your life. Whether it’s internal dialogue for external circumstances. How are you identifying and relating? So that’s a really.

Lyssa deHart

What your default role is when when circumstances take a turn and you’re required to show up. How do you show up?

Donna Zajonc

And we all do all three of them. But we tend to have one that is our go to But here’s the other thing that’s important is that there is a underlying victim existential thing going on for all of us, we all know we’re going to die. So depending on our relationship to death, we often at least in the western world, know, that were victimized to death. So there’s this ongoing largeness that is going on that I call it an existential victimhood. And then on top of that is our day to day situation by situation, reactivity to what our mind is saying we don’t like and don’t want. That can really complicate things and help as we coach and listen to our clients of what’s really going on underneath the waterline.

Lyssa deHart

Well and I think it’s really crucial because it is really the existential dilemma, right? Is that none of us is getting out of here alive, as my grandfather used to say. Um and that undercurrent of am I doing enough? And my being enough? Am I leaving enough of a legacy And my impacting enough people can really get activated with

Donna Zajonc

with our perspective.

Lyssa deHart

with the work that we do. And you know, the world has so many things that you could put your time and energy into. And maybe make a difference and maybe not feel like you’ve made enough of a difference. And what do you do with that tension between still doing it? Like still having there’s a value to the action of “the being” that person who shows up in that space and holds it for others.

Donna Zajonc

That’s such a big question. You know, we’re really only in the 2nd 3rd generation of having the luxury to ask these questions. All of the history of mankind, person kind it’s been survival, either survival for food, shelter or survival with the Kings, Queens, Popes, Chiefs that [political intrigue] or whatever told us to do or disease. And so now we have this luxury. It’s such an exciting time to be alive. To ponder, we have the time and the abundance most of us in the Western world. Again, especially coaches to ponder these questions of how do we be the best selves we can be? What’s our deepest longings? And what I love about this work is that it has methods to accelerate our ability to self observed, to be in relationship with those questions. We always always, once we introduce some basic work, start with what do you really care about? What do you really want the outcome? Because that’s going to shift your energy, your emotions to positive uplifting. Which aligns within the greater challenger coach roles. So, again, in our coaching um courses that is such an important element. We don’t try to problem solve because we’re going to trigger, we’re gonna trigger ourselves. We’re gonna go,

Lyssa deHart

solve,

Donna Zajonc

Yeah, so there’s a lot to it. I write a Friday blog uh if you want to go to,

Lyssa deHart

I’ll put your website and in fact, this really sort of is a good place to transition into what is new in your world? I think there were some things besides the book happening?

Donna Zajonc

Right. Um David and I are launching um somewhat of a rebranding from our Power of TED work and what we call our three vital questions for teams and organizations to apply The Power of TED work. We’re putting it all together and it’s now going to be called The Center for the Empowerment Dynamic, The Empowerment Dynamic roles is our intellectual property, property, registered trademarks. And we’re realizing this is where we want to create an umbrella for all of our work. We’ll have three books starting when mine comes out on March 1st. So that’s going to kick off by the end of January, February. and David’s book, The Power of TED, is kind of our foundational book. And um then my book is really geared towards coaching with The Empowerment Dynamic again, March first.

Lyssa deHart

Well, and I’ll be creating links for all of these um places like the books and I’m gonna add David’s book in there also because I think it’s so profound in his work with the Karpman Drama Triangle is just seminal. And so I’ll make sure all of that is available for people to click on and go and check out your work. Thank you so very much for being on the Coaching Studio today. I’ve absolutely appreciated this conversation.

Donna Zajonc

I have appreciated it too. And I remember when I reached out to a coach when I was contemplating going to coaching school and she was so uh spacious and generous with her time to answer my questions. And so for any of the newer coaches or people that are considering coaching, I hope this is offered you an idea of the identity that Lyssa and I feel around who we are being. As curious, amazing people that well, I don’t know how amazing we are.

Lyssa deHart

We’re amazing,

Donna Zajonc

We’re amazingly curious about the human operating system. The human mind and coaching creates the space to partner with others and we know we’re at a pivotal time in the world’s history. And coaching is as powerful as any profession to help accelerate the goodness. So this planet works for all. Not just a few.

Lyssa deHart

Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much.

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Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC

Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC

Host

Lyssa deHart ditched her therapy practice to become a Leadership Confidence Coach. Along the way she discovered a passion for professional coaching and wanted to find ways to share that passion with the world. Come join her in discovering and meeting some of the most amazing professional coaches on the planet. Her goal is to inspire coaches. Lyssa is the author of StoryJacking: Change Your Dialogue, Transform Your Life. She is an ICF PCC Assessor, Certified Mentor Coach, and budding Coach SuperVisor. Lyssa uses her understanding of the ICF Core Competencies, combined with her knowledge of Neuroscience, to work with people to become extraordinary professional coaches. Let's Go!

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