Season 1 | episode 15
Welcome to the Coaching Studio Podcast
This podcast features fun, lively conversations with masterful coaches who are creating an impact. Get to know them, their journey into coaching, and discover what wisdom they would offer you about being a better coach.
Let’s go!
the Coaching Studio Guest
I am very excited to welcome Annie Gelfand, MBA, MCC to the Coaching Studio Podcast.
Quick Links from Episode
To learn more about Annie, visit The Essence of Mastery Website use code LYSSA for special pricing.
and Radical Wisdom.
Credits
- Host: Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC
- Music: Frolic by Harrison Amer
- Production Editing: Lyssa deHart
- Social Media and Communications: Michele Logan
About This Episode
Read the transcript of this episode of the Coaching Studio Podcast:
| Lyssa deHart | Hi Lyssa deHart here and thank you for joining us on the Coaching Studio. Today my guest is an eagle friend, she is an MCC coach with the International Coaching Federation. She is the founder, creator and host of the Essence of Mastery Summit, Radical Wisdom and Reach Coaching Mastery programs. She has been coaching and mentoring since 1997 and she holds a Master’s in Business Administration. She is a certified professional Co-Active coach, trained in organizational and relationship systems coaching, team coaching, and is a registered ICF mentor coach and ICF PCC and MCC assessor. Annie knows coaching. Annie is passionate about supporting coaches to enhance their skills so they are able to show up deeply with the people they work with. Annie lived in the Himalayan mountains of Northern India for seven years while studying with a meditation and yoga master. And this really began her exploration of the integration of holistic medicine and emotional balancing in her work when Annie isn’t assisting clients in creating radical wisdom, she can usually be found with her gentleman love, biking the open roads, exploring the woods, swimming, and kayaking in the lake on a hot summer’s day or knee-deep in some create, creative creation with paint words or food and probably my guess, knowing her, all three. Annie, welcome welcome welcome to the coaching studio. |
| Annie Gelfand | Well, thank you for that beautiful introduction, |
| Lyssa deHart | You’re very, very welcome. I see that beautiful lake behind you right now. So you know where I started on this, you know, what was the journey into coaching? How how did you get from where you started to, where you are in coaching now? |
| Annie Gelfand | What a lovely question. Um, my original career is in business, in the corporate world, specifically in marketing and strategic marketing, uh and business development and variety, really big corporate consumer goods and health care. And I, my, my last corporate job was very challenging. I was working with a really large Montreal teaching hospital and um, it was a really, really demanding job. I was reporting to the board of directors to the Foundation and I was working probably 12 hours a day, maybe even longer and weekends. And at a certain point I just burned out. I just said, I can’t do this anymore. And so I gave everything away, that I owned, and I went off to India despite everybody going, you’re crazy, what are you doing? And um there I studied meditation in yoga for seven years until I fell off the mountain and I herniated four disks in my back and I came back to Canada in a wheelchair, unable to walk. And that really started that holistic journey because I kept coming into, I’m going to try to make this not too long a story. I will get to coaching in a second. But it’s sort of important because I kept running into um not being able to get healing that I needed from the allopathic line. You know, there was such a limitation of what they could offer. Surgery, intervention, or drugs, neither of which was a permanent solution. So I found my way looking through the holistic alternatives, osteopathy, and so on and that variety of different things, reflexology, aromatherapy just helped me so, so so much. And I realized I discovered I had this passion for health and healing. And so I uh when I came back from India I knew I did not want to go back to the corporate world. So I began to teach meditation in yoga in a yoga studio. And while I was there and by the way, I also worked at the front desk. And so while I was working the front desk one night a gentleman called and said I would like to interview someone from my next book about meditation and I said, well it just so happens, I’ve been a meditator since I’m 16 years old. I began meditating because my father was dying, it’s a long story, I won’t get into it. Um but I know meditation. And he turned out to be a very well-known author and he was my first coaching client. At the same time, I had been mentored by what are they called, um not a psychologist. Anyway, I can’t think psychoanalyst, I guess. Uh, so he had been mentoring me because I was wanting to change my career. So he was mentoring me to grow my own coaching practice through his guidance. And when I was being interviewed by this gentleman, he was overseeing me helping this client. So I kind of had guidance in this. But I soon discovered that I felt really out of integrity because I was certified and trained in a number of holistic modalities. I have my MBA and I have all of that sort of really professional business background but in the one profession that I was discovering that I loved so much, I didn’t have any certification. So I dragged my tail. I actually first went online to International Coach Federation because even back in the nineties everybody knew that they were the gold standard of coaching. And so I went looking for what schools would appeal to me. And I had certain criteria and I selected three and I interviewed because I do this five from each school and I had them coached me and then I chose the one whose style resonated the most with me and that was CTI. |
| Lyssa deHart | That, you know can we just like okay so several things you’ve said a lot of things that I think I’ve been wanting to like grab at. One you literally fell off a mountain to find yourself which is like metaphorically amazing right? But this way, something that you just said, about how you strategically thought about consciously chose the place that you wanted to go to by interviewing five people from each of these schools and then having them coach you so that you could find the place that most resonated with you. I love the attention and attunement to really feeling into what was going to be the best space for yourself. |
| Annie Gelfand | So by this time I had been coaching for probably three years. Maybe two, I can’t remember exactly. And I just it’s who I think there are those of us that just you know do things thoroughly and if your values are excellence and mastery you’re going to be probably as thorough as I am. And look, you know coach training is not cheap so you want to make sure that you’re investing in a good school and you know like you don’t want to spend all that much money and discovered that you really not that good at school right? Like you know the Coaches Training Institute was one of the first that had been in that had been credentialed by the International Coach Federation or accredited I guess and beautiful style of coat. I mean I I I will never forget my first series of classes with CTI. I mean I would cry during you know listening to any of the CT’s from Karen Kinsey House, Helen House like all of you know the wonderful leaders and coaches from CTI. And the style was so heartfelt and so so authentic and so transformative that I thought that’s it, that’s what I want. And I remember and when I was going through certification and I have Helen House and Rick Tamlyn, I think it was Rick Tamlyn it must have been Helen and Rick. Um They were my leaders and I was assisting. And if you know anything about Helen House, you know, she’s a beautiful, I mean if you don’t know her, you should know her, if you’re in the coaching community, she’s just a beautiful coach. She’s just so caring and and and so you know, fierce courage is her, right. Um and so while I was at the end of that weekend of assisting, we were going around in a circle and completing and I was just in tears of amazement. I was just because when I’m really moved, I cry. And I was just wow, you two are what coaching should be like. This is what, this is why I’ve chosen this profession, it’s to have watched them move around the world, the move around the room and interact with all the participants in such a respectful, loving and calling forth way. I knew that there was something in this profession that I just knew this was for me, this was me. And I will never forget both Rick and Helen turned to me and said if you see that in us, it is in you. And I thought, wow and you know what they were right. |
| Lyssa deHart | What a way to transform though, the way that we even see ourselves, right? |
| Annie Gelfand | To really have, this is rare, this is a rare gift and this is why I love coaching so much. And why I love coaches. Um I think coaches most coach is not all coaches but most coaches are really caring people and really would like to make the world a better place. And to be held in a way by your coach, by anyone, in a way that actually sees who you are at your heart and calls you forth to be the greatest and the biggest grandest version of yourself, to be held without judgment and complete acceptance is a very rare gift. And you know, they were stellar at that and I just knew that’s the kind of coach I want to be. And so um your original question was how did you discover coaching? So it was very, it was not known in the late 90s, you know, coaching, it was just okay, well let me be a coach, like that sounds fun, let me try it. I really didn’t know what it was until I actually started my training with CTI. And even after the core courses that I had, so I thought I knew it’s funny right? Like you think, you know, and then after I did certification, I thought, what was I thinking? I didn’t know anything. And then after I did my journey to MCC I thought what was I thinking? I didn’t know anything. And I’m still telling myself I’m, you know, we’re always going as coaches, so it’s been a journey and probably the most challenging part of the journey was becoming an MCC |
| Lyssa deHart | Yeah, you know, and as you say that it is the consistent thing that I hear as I’m talking to other coaches who have become MCC’s is that there’s there is an internal, an internal journey that is required. Is in is asked of somebody to be able to demonstrate that skillset, of what you were talking about with Helen and Jack. Of being able to really create the space that creates the transformational opportunity for the client. |
| Annie Gelfand | What you just said was really important. Um it’s an inner transformational journey first as coach before you can be that energy for someone else. And that’s, you know, in 2019 when I took over the Summit, so Fran fisher and I Okay, so I should probably just say the Essence of Mastery Summit was created, co-created first in 2016 with Fran Fisher. We created it because we were looking for something that would grow us and grow our skills. We couldn’t find anything, so we created it. And the essence of mastery summit essentially is choosing nine additional coaches to me because I took it over in 2019. Fran didn’t want anymore to do with the admin, she said it’s too much work. I’ll continue to be a speaker, but it’s yours. So I took it over in 2019 and my topic was three key reasons why MCC uh MCC applicants weren’t passing their performance evaluation. And the number one reason was because they weren’t doing enough of that inner journey to really get themselves out of their way to get their clients’ way. And if you’ve taken coach training and you go to your first coach training class, you realize that this is a big calling forth, of who we are to leave no stone unturned of any parts of ourselves that we are judging or where we’re judging others, because we’re judging ourselves where we are lacking in love for ourselves and lacking in respect for ourselves. I mean, you cannot be a masterful coach without going deep into those areas. |
| Lyssa deHart | Yeah. You know the thing um that is bubbling up for me also, as you’re talking is this this, we, you said it, you know what we what we cannot do for ourselves, we cannot really hold the space for others. And I think as you were talking also, there was this sense of that ego that we have to let go of that ego state of expertise and and learn how to truly be with another human being in curiosity. And that that journey actually allows us to inform our curiosity based on the fact that we’ve walked, not their journey or path, but something of our own that we can draw on that experience with another person going through their own journey. And and I mean, you do a lot of assessing for ICF at the PCC and MCC level. The word that is showing up right now is really that partnership and I know you and I have talked about partnership in the past. But could you speak a little bit about the partnership that is, like what that even means? Because I think we hear the word partnership, we don’t even we think we know what it means and then we don’t maybe know what it means. |
| Annie Gelfand | Absolutely. Um, God, I love your questions Lyssa. um I think partnership is especially important at the MCC level. And what do we mean by that? As as a as a general rule in society, it is not okay to not know anything, or to not know something. It starts in school when we’re called on by the teacher um that you’re almost shamed if you don’t have the answer, instant answer. So it’s no surprise that as we grow older and we grow into or whatever profession we’ve chosen. Um there’s an inner expectation and an outer expectation to know something, to be an expert of something, especially when you’re getting paid for it. So as a coach, I think that’s where people get confused with consultants. I think people still aren’t quite clear where that line delineates coach from consultant. And partnerships is it, partnerships are the delineation. I think um partnership requires we trust our client completely to to have their own answers. So a consultant will give an answer. A coach will have the client delve deeply into discovering their own answer. And it’s especially important when the client doesn’t think they know. When they answer, “I don’t know. ” And so partnership, it doesn’t look like, well here’s what I know, right? That’s not partnership. Um so this is kind of going against a lot of how we’ve grown up and how we’ve been conditioned to respond and interact. And there’s a lot of ego in knowing. You know, it was not okay in my first job out of my Bachelor of Commerce degree at McGill University to not know. That was not okay if I didn’t know I better damn well, pardon my language, discover what I needed to know. If you look at any job you have to know. So this is really counterintuitive in a sense because now you have to pare back all of that conditioned response to know and to be an expert and provide value. Too trusting your client enough to have their own answers. And provide them with questions to help them discover and dig deep enough to find their own answers. And that goes to that saying which is in our society, “You can give a man a fish or you can teach them how to fish and they have a lifelong skill. ” So we have that already that adage, you know, in our, in our awareness, but there’s not a lot of that that goes on. |
| Lyssa deHart | Yeah. And you know, Annie as you say that the there’s this also this, if I’m going to fully trust my client, how many of us fully trust anything? And that really rolls back to what you said earlier. It is that internal journey of the coach, that has to happen first, because we have to be in our space where we can truly genuinely trust ourselves. To listen to be in partnership, not as the expert, but as the equal as as the as the partner in a dance. |
| Annie Gelfand | Yes. Yes. And dance love it. Yes. Um, it’s probably the one single. Well, there’s quite a few factors why coaches may not pass their MCC evaluation, but not partnering is a really big one. And um, so it would sound like when the client is sharing a lot of things, it’s primarily for coaches, this radio, this podcast, correct? |
| Lyssa deHart | It’s for people who are interested in coaching. Maybe want coaching. But also for coaches specifically, yeah to learn from other coaches. |
| Annie Gelfand | So when you’re, when you’re coaching your client and your client is sharing a lot of things. And so our job is coaches to listen carefully and thoroughly and be present. So if we’re thinking ahead to what questions should I ask? Where, where should I go next? We’re not really being present and it takes it’s a skill to grow. There’s no question about it. Like I remember right back at the beginning, it’s it’s not an easy thing to do to listen carefully to what they’re saying and not try to go ahead so that, you know what questions to ask them. I mean that’s, right, how many coaches started off by writing down all the questions on a piece of paper that they should ask. Right. So that’s good for the beginning journey, but it’s not going to serve you that well as you proceed and especially at the MCC level. You want to listen really, really carefully to what they say and we will always say pick up the breadcrumbs of their words and offer it back to them. And say, look client, you’ve offered this and then you use your curiosity really pare it back and go, what is that? Well, what does that mean to you? Or where would you like to start? Like beautiful open-ended questions. That’s partnership. Playing back, like even in the MCC mark in the pcc markers, um, playback the possibilities to the clients and let them choose. That’s partnership, that’s coaching presence. Um, so you’re not telling, I always say ask, don’t tell, |
| Lyssa deHart | You know, and that is something that you know, that I see happens a lot also where the coach gets so excited about the progress they see the client having made. And, and they just began rattling off all of the things that the client is capable of and has done and all the learning that’s shown up. Versus inviting the client to name all those things for themselves. And to again, you know, to invite that client forward into the conversation to lead us. |
| Annie Gelfand | and that’s where ego comes in. I’m just noticing a little wash that we see if this is that, I’m sorry, I think that’s a little better. Yeah, that’s much better. Um, that’s where ego comes in because a coach will try… Ah so let’s say you’re coaching a client and you just don’t, like I had this experience actually was doing a live coaching demo of all times and the coach, the client rather was, who was a coach, was all over the place, just all over the place and now some people are like that. It’s not a wrongness, it’s just what I know about her is that she needs to talk out loud to discover where she’s at. So my job is to listen very, very carefully and when she’s finished, not to interrupt her. Because there’s a flow of her learning and just allow her to self-discover sometimes and then play back to her what what she said. Because sometimes clients don’t hear themselves. And so especially when we’re doing a live coaching demo, like that, one could definitely get into ego and think, oh my God, I I have to do a good job. As soon as we allow our ego in, we have now made the session about ourselves and not about our client. And so the second I intrude in there, I have now turned it around to me. And that’s probably one of the single most important factors in partnership is, if you make this about you, you’ve stopped partnering with your client. |
| Lyssa deHart | Yeah. You know, and the other thing that um, I’m thinking as you’re talking is I hear coaches say, you know, I need to bottom line the story and I’m hearing something very different from you. I’m hearing listening for what did you say those crumbs of of information? How does how, how did you since, I don’t know how one does it, but how did you really, really get comfortable with hearing the story? And, and then being curious because I wonder if people hear the story and then they want to put the kibosh on this story because it’s like, oh, these people are talking too much. Versus really mining that story for the richness that might be showing up. How did you make that transformation? |
| Annie Gelfand | I think first of all, it is important to tell your clients to bottom line. We really do have to tell them to bottom line. And if they’re getting into story, you have to design with them what to do when they get into the story, right? But there’s a different, there’s another track altogether. And that is allow your client to teach you, who they are and how they learn. And if you know your client, like this particular client learns by talking outloud and listening to what she’s saying and then she hears yourself and then I will play things back to her. So she wasn’t getting caught in story, she was meandering what appeared to be meandering kind of all over the place because she wasn’t that clear in what her agenda was, that was part of what we needed to. My friend Fran Fisher sometimes says, um sometimes the coaching agreement is the coaching. Sometimes it takes an entire session just to find out what the topic is. Because it could look like this, and then as you dive down deep, it’s something else. So let’s differentiate between when a client is going into story and talking on and on and on and on. From a client is just a little bit not sure what the topic is. And so we’re kind of maybe going around things a little. |
| Lyssa deHart | Or, externally processing like you’re talking about, like, I mean, and I think that becomes the distinction, right? There is a type of story that’s just sort of all about details of what’s happening out there, which might be a very different sort of story than the story of somebody making meaning of an internal experience and how they fit within that system. I don’t know, as I say, that does does that maybe not. I don’t know. You know? |
| Annie Gelfand | Yes. So what I’m hearing you say with that is that you have to you really have to learn who your client is and how they learn. So some clients, like if you if your if your client shows up with a lot of story and talks and talks and talks and it’s all over the place and getting into details. You’re not you’re not training your client to bottom line and it won’t be an effective use of your sessions. If your client, on the other hand, is like this one where she needed to talk out loud to learn, she needed to hear herself because she thought that the topic was this. But as she began to speak, the topic morphed into that. And then as she continued to speak and was and and I replayed what she shared it turned into this. And I had to track her. So this is the beauty of the Core Competencies because the coaching agreement is what is the topic? What is the outcome? How will you know what’s important about that? You know, where are you now and where would you like to right? Those kinds of questions. And you have to do that for every time the topic changes. So right. So I have to track her. Okay. So you know, so what what’s the topic now? Like it sounds like it just changed or are they related? Because I can pretend to know or I can, I think I have to provide value by knowing. But, the partnership will be leaning on her to ask her because she knows it’s her internalized process not mine. I’m just an outsider observing. So all I can do is playback what I’ve heard her say. So I’m like really attentive and really, really present. And even though she’s like mer mer mer, all over the place, I’m tracking her. And I’m writing down key words and I will share them back and say so where are we looking at? |
| Lyssa deHart | So a couple things that you’ve said that I think are really crucial. one agreement setting may need to come up multiple times in a conversation when we are like, I feel like I’m lost in a field where are we? And how does this relate to what we said or has it changed in getting clarity. And that’s that transparency piece that I think is about that vulnerability that a coach shows right? Where they just are like I don’t know where we are? Please you tell me where we are and now does that change where we’re going or are we still going in the same direction? Either way it is fine. And I think that’s so crucial for people to hear. So I thank you so much for bringing that up. There was another piece to that also which um, I’ve lost. Um, |
| Annie Gelfand | [laughter] |
| Lyssa deHart | It will come back if it was… It was genius, also, I will say that a really good question for you. |
| Annie Gelfand | It will come to you after we closed the recording. |
| Lyssa deHart | Yes, of course. But I mean I think that is that that goes back in a way to that full circle to that self-trust, right? Of how we we hold the space ourself. |
| Annie Gelfand | Um I think that if you are trusting yourself then you can actually listen with complete presence. And give the space and the silence for the client to process. Because silence is another one that most people are uncomfortable with. I did a talk on that and I think that was in 2018 called it Silences a Coaching Superpower. |
| Lyssa deHart | So you know, this actually makes me think of something else which is I was listening to a coaching demonstration that you had done when I was working on my MCC. And I don’t remember, I remember it was through Gail Moore’s, Moore Masterful Coaching. Um and you had done recording on there. I’m pretty sure that’s where I heard it. And there was a silence where you had asked a question and there was, you know, these silences may they may honestly only be short, but they feel epically long. Like there’s weight to the silence and you came back with a question that was something to the effect of, “What is in the silence? ” And I just remember it was such a moment for me and my own coach development that I was like, that is one of the best questions. Because I think for a lot of coaches we could be very discomforted by that degree of weighty silence and want to start filling it with the meaning we’re making like maybe I asked the wrong question here, let me fill it with another few questions. Or um, but it is, if I’m hearing you correctly, it’s that sinking into that allowance of that space to be silent. |
| Annie Gelfand | I think that silence for some reason, people are extremely uncomfortable when their silence in a conversation. And I remember the first time I experienced it with coach, my MCC coach when I was going through certification. Um, I really was uncomfortable with her silence. I was uncomfortable with her silence. and then I began because I would call her on it. I would say like I’m, you know, are you there? Like what’s happening? Where are you? I feel like you’ve gone away from me and she said, no, I’m just giving you time to reflect, to answer, to be um, what’s happening for you with the silence? So I, you know, and then I would watch when I would be in a conversation with someone like, you know, never mind coaching just with a friend, walking, talking, being at dinner. Um, how many people can just be quiet? It’s really rare. Most people try to fill it with talking and chatting. And and there’s something incredibly potent about just being in silence and allowing space. And, and especially in a coaching conversation when you’ve asked a very powerful question and we have the luxury now of having zoom so we can see the other person and know that they haven’t hung up on us and that the line hasn’t disconnected. So we know they’re there. Um because I’m thinking back to the days presume when we didn’t have that luxury and uh it was like, are you there? Right? But now we know that someone is still there and the ability to hold space for someone where there’s so much trust and safety. Uh, where there are no, there’s no judgment. And they really truly have time to dig down deep. And that’s MCC coaching. MCC PCC coaching is brilliant for getting things done. It’s a great to do list and check things off. MCC coaching is transformational coaching when you want some sustainable change that is going to change a pattern you’ve had is just not serving you and you’ve struggled with it most of your life. MCC coaching comes in there. It’s so powerful because we dig down deep and we witness and we reveal and we reflect and we partner and we ask and we hold that space for the client to discover. And it’s that thing that is so powerful. They discover. We don’t help. They discovered. |
| Lyssa deHart | Yeah. It’s that their brain lights up. I mean it’s nice when our brain lights up too. But that’s not the point. It’s that their brain lights up. |
| Annie Gelfand | Yeah. And one of the nicest things that a client can say to me afterwards is, these sessions are life-transforming. And you know, I always have so much to think about after I after I hang up with you, there’s always something to really consider Chuan and think about that will just change something really big. |
| Lyssa deHart | And I think your point is really well met, which is very few of us. I don’t care if you’re 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 it just doesn’t matter. But we didn’t get where we are in a weekend, right? Like these patterns don’t just like magically appear in our lives. There there codified in the way that we show up in the world. And those things aren’t going to change instantly and they’re not going to change without the deep work of of understanding what drives us. And so it takes that deep partnership in order to create sustainable changes. |
| Annie Gelfand | And if it was something that we could do on our own, we would do it on our own. |
| Lyssa deHart | We would have already done it on our own, most likely. |
| Annie Gelfand | I remember back in 2009 when I first began my MCC journey and I just started making the inquiry of what makes a masterful coach? And I was really, you know, in the question of it. And what came to me was and it’s going to sound corny and I think you and I talked about this before, but it is truly, call it unconditional positive regard, I would call it love, but call it unconditional positive regard. It’s a similar thing where you are truly accepting of who your client is and in that acceptance where there is no judgment and there is just what it is and you’re just a pure reflection mirror for them. They get to examine and explore the areas of their life that works for them in the areas of their life that doesn’t work for them. And they get to choose, I’m going to continue or I’m not going to continue. I’m going to make a different choice and um, that I just forgot what I was going, what is going on here. |
| Lyssa deHart | But I mean, I really think that it is that we are in that space of unconditional positive regard with another human being. And… You go. |
| Annie Gelfand | Well, I was just, I just remembered it’s because I started asking myself so what is it, what does it take for someone who’s been exhibiting a pattern of limiting behavior, limiting beliefs, playing small feeling not good enough, which is a lot of this world. A lot of people, certainly in the Western societies, um. What is it that will transform them? Have them choose something really, really different? How do they cross that get from over here to over here? And it isn’t from the judgment that they’ve gotten most of their lives and their teachers and their, you know, peers and whoever else that doesn’t change judgment doesn’t change things, judgment keeps things the same. What changes things is somebody like Helen and Rick did for me. Somebody who sees your possibility. Somebody who sees who you are at your core and in your heart. And and calls that fourth and speaks to you from your greatness and sees that greatness. And, and then as they are with you and witnessing you in your tears and then your limiting beliefs and on all the ways that you’ve played small. And and they get to choose, make a choice of well, do I want to continue playing small or do I want to maybe be done with that because that’s the past and it’s really not serving me. And when you’re with that coach who can be in that unconditional positive regard, then you are seen and held at your greatest. And that to be reflective of, to have that reflected back to you? To have um someone just really stand by your side and get really curious, okay, so like a great example was a client who had just started working with me. And I tell the story a lot because it’s so powerful. Um we got on zoom, I had been coaching all day on zoom. I, her audio wasn’t working or the audio on, on her side wasn’t working, she could hear me, I could not hear her. And right away I said, well I think it’s from your side because I’ve been coaching on zoom all day and it’s fine and I right away, she found her son came and fixed it. It turned out it was on her side, but her energy and her face just went… Like everything changed. So coach, observant, responsive, right coaching presence you I I immediately got curious and I said, something just changed what happened? So I didn’t assume what it was. I asked her, I got curious. Well yeah, I felt wrong. I felt wrong because you didn’t even consider that it could be from your side. And I went right, you’re absolutely right. Like of course, I’m so sorry, I should have checked on my side also. And just in doing that, in my willingness to to to see it from her perspective that yes, you’re right, I could have been wrong. She’s dealing with a lifetime of feeling wrong. I just triggered it. That’s all that happened. And so we could together stand side by side and look at the pattern. I said this is great, let’s have a look at this. What’s going on here? Yeah, so that’s powerful. |
| Lyssa deHart | It’s also your willingness to be courageously vulnerable and and show up fully with another person. And I think, you know, this idea of not judging, it requires us to recognize where we do have a bias. Maybe towards our volume working or there’s not, right? It’s everywhere. And the willingness to go, you’re right, I made an assumption and I own that. And that takes that’s that’s the work of a lifetime to be able to be that courageous. |
| Annie Gelfand | Which tracks back to your comment earlier, is that you don’t get here overnight, like you know, I’ve been coaching, what is it? 23 years, 24 years whatever, tracking whatever… |
| Lyssa deHart | We’re not going to do the numbers… |
| Annie Gelfand | For a long time, a long time. And I like the biggest transformation for me was that MCC journey because I listened to my recording, I recorded my calls with my clients written permission, of course, I listened to those calls and I worked with a Metro coach to debrief them and I did that for an entire year. And if you ever want to have, I feel humbled, do that. Listen to yourself coaching. And I mean, I still feel very humbled. I listened to a coaching demo I did a month ago. And I could still see all the things like, oh, I should have done this and why didn’t I do? Like of course we’re our worst critic. But I’m always listening with my assessor’s ears and I I hear, oh, I could have done this, it’s like, it’s never going to be perfect and it doesn’t have to be perfect. If you’re looking to submit for your MCC recording, which I highly recommend you should go for your MCC if you’re listening to this. um you know, don’t let the journey to become an MCC intimidate you. Don’t let the pass rate intimidate you. Um don’t do it for anyone do it for you. Do it for your clients. Do it for your sense of of, of self-pride, I guess. Because that journey transformed my coaching beyond anything I could have ever imagined, I have become a much better coach because of it. And I have those habits now of listening to the recordings and evaluating the recordings because I have to, in order to be an assessor. I I mean I have to do it for myself too |
| Lyssa deHart | well and I think that that’s a that’s a huge thing. I mean, I know my own learning has exponentially grown as a result of listening and getting transcripts and really, really being mindful of what the client offered and what I noticed and there are gaps at times right into your point, MCC doesn’t mean you’ve hit the pinnacle and now you’ll you’ll always be a perfect coach. Because it’s not about perfect coaching. but it’s about being that self reflective piece of constantly growing and developing yourself as a human being, as a coach, as a partner in a conversation and this has been so much fun. Um would you, what do you talk to in, you know, in this coming time? |
| Annie Gelfand | Well, funny you should ask, um it’s time again for the Essence of Mastery Summit, which is an annual event and it launches every year during international coaching week. It’s held actually, that’s its first launch, then we hold one again in September, and another one in December. So we can hit different time zones around the world. International Coach Federation is a truly global organization. I don’t remember how many members there are now. It’s got to be over 30, 000, maybe even almost 40, 000 at this point. More and more are becoming credential. So every year we have somewhere around 21 ICF core competency education units. So we have to renew our credentials every three years. We always need those, you know, 40 credits. So coming to the, to the Essence of Mastery Summit will give you all the credits you need plus all the ethics. Because we have always featuring ethics as well. We need that too. So that will give you all the credits you need to renew. |
| Lyssa deHart | I’ll put, I’ll put a link in the in the description below so people can go to your website and find it and thank you so much for being on the Coaching Studio today. I really appreciate the journey. I don’t know that I’ve known anybody who actually fell off a mountain to find themselves. Um and |
| Annie Gelfand | So I sould just amend it, it was more like a cliff. Not a mountian. |
| Lyssa deHart | Okay, well, I like the mountain metaphor. |
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Lyssa deHart, LICSW, MCC
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Lyssa deHart ditched her therapy practice to become a Leadership Confidence Coach. Along the way she discovered a passion for professional coaching and wanted to find ways to share that passion with the world. Come join her in discovering and meeting some of the most amazing professional coaches on the planet. Her goal is to inspire coaches. Lyssa is the author of StoryJacking: Change Your Dialogue, Transform Your Life , and The Reflective Coach. Lyssa is an ICF PCC Assessor, Certified Mentor Coach, and budding Coach SuperVisor. Lyssa uses her understanding of the ICF Core Competencies, combined with her knowledge of Neuroscience, to work with people to become extraordinary professional coaches. Let's Go!
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